I have talked in the past about how you 'referee a game away from a team'. It isn't through big decisions but just in getting little ones consistently wrong in one direction to control which team has the upper hand. Here is data that would show how it looks if that consistently happens to a team - ThreadSky

babuyagu.bsky.social • 1 day ago

I have talked in the past about how you 'referee a game away from a team'. It isn't through big decisions but just in getting little ones consistently wrong in one direction to control which team has the upper hand.

Here is data that would show how it looks if that consistently happens to a team

Reposted from Dom

You kiNd of don't want it to be true but it feels this way every game. Love the work done to properly look at it from a data point of view. I hate how refereeing changes games so much

#LFC

open.substack.com/pub/tomkinst...

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ste-23.bsky.social•1 day ago

Yep. Advantages too.. in particular one v Forest at home

yesthatjay.bsky.social•1 day ago

Drives me mad when refs say they don't make calls because they want the players to decide the game. By not making calls they ARE deciding the game.

And yeah I'm still not over Doku's boot to the chest.

tvrlfc.bsky.social•1 day ago

The debate around referee bias is fascinating. There are certainly situations where LFC get given fouls that are not the right decision but I can’t recall a match where we’ve had such a run of the green like Everton did in the recent derby.

tvrlfc.bsky.social•1 day ago

I only ever see games where there is an equal benefit for both LFC and their opponent but the view from the outside is that LFC get the majority of 50-50 decisions. Salah hardly gets fouls given against him. Our penalties are clear cut. Our midfielders have to be pulled back or chopped to get fouls.

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

It's because in the mix of referees are some who are just a bit shit. Or are swayed by the home crowd. (e.g. Taylor).

Intriguingly, when you identify those homey refs, you notice we almost never get them at Anfield anymore. We've had Taylor more times away in 2024 alone than at Anfield since 2020.

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

Is Paul Tomkins the author? Is he on here? I want to give whoever their kudos for this work.

paddyjsmith.bsky.social•1 day ago

Yeah it’s Paul, he’s off all sm wisely!! He’s done immense work on the way LFC are reffed, it’s jaw dropping at times what he’s uncovered, I’m sure the club know but I also think other clubs know, ‘go down easy, scream & you’ll get a free kick as the refs hate LFC!’ Other fans will call us nutters!

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:qk5o2yr55qlohf4tt32rdplm

Found him. Superb work as always from Paul

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

https://bsky.app/profile/babuyagu.bsky.social/post/3lhvqidwf4k2t

My previous thread on it.

socrates80.bsky.social•1 day ago

Thanks, good piece, but I got angry all over again after reading it 😅

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

My mate won't read it because he saw the title and that PT wrote it and knows it will rile him up before the City game.

Told him to read during the international break so he has time to forget and move on :D

stigenkeegan.bsky.social•1 day ago

I love Tomkins. By far the best writer on Liverpool stuff (along with yourself). Really good to finally have data showing what I've been saying for years about big v small ref decisions in "managing" games.

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

I really appreciate that mate.

And likewise, this is something I have felt for a number of years now. Certainly since VAR came in.

VAR won't interfere in those minor decisions.

I know this makes it sound planned and premeditated. Maybe I just didn't notice it before. But I think after Coote and

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

the talk of referee whatsapp groups being awash with anti-Liverpool, scouse & LFC stuff - there are certainly some out there that do this with intent and explicitly.

As opposed to implicit bias which can be equally if not more powerful in determining our judgement.

stigenkeegan.bsky.social•1 day ago

Something that I've been thinking about as a possible explanation for what I perceived to be an increase is the difference in tactics from Klopp to Slot (in my obviously very superficial observations):

stigenkeegan.bsky.social•1 day ago

To me it seems like this season we've pushed an extra midfielder (Szobo) higher , almost 4-2-4. Leaving larger gaps on the side of the "2" and then relying on the running power of Szobo (mostly) to track back in transitions.

stigenkeegan.bsky.social•1 day ago

Meaning that we often see our players coming into tackles "from behind" after tracking back being on the "wrong" side of the ball. This might/will increase the likelihood of making something that appears to be a foul.

stigenkeegan.bsky.social•1 day ago

I suspect that Klopp would try to solve this by trying to push the backline even further up to compress the space, but in itself creates other issues to be solved.

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

Part of me thought, Virg and Robbo aging means they are maybe making more fouls as they just fail to get there in time.

But then we don't see the same with any other team, including City, whose squad in the first half of the season looked VERY old. Especially CM and defence.

autocorrect.bsky.social•1 day ago

I always try to approach these things with some healthy skepticism, as all supporters claim their team get the short end of the stick with refs. Hilariously enough I was going “Hmmm, wondering if pressing could be the explanation”, and then Tomkins’ very next paragraph accounted for that as well.

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

That's a great way of thinking. Are you a scientist of some sort.

That's how I think about things too.
1. What are all the ways to explain this?
2. What is the most likely way to explain it?
3. Can I eliminate that?
Then you arrive and your most probable explanation and can go through

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

alternatives ideas and options and see if you can account for/eliminate them.

olliemeyer.bsky.social•1 day ago

It’s death by a thousand cuts. Bias or corruption eother way this is how it is done.

ruudfood.bsky.social•1 day ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again: refs earn £80-200k a year. With the billions in football and the bias in society, they are low hanging fruit. Paying them off would be a walk in the park!

olliemeyer.bsky.social•1 day ago

We saw and heard with Coote it can also be just a deep hatred. Either way we reffed unfairly as Tompkins article points out.

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

I think this is the important thing.

It is always on the fans to explain it. Say bias 'yeah all fans say that'. Say conspiracy and you are a loon.

But that isn't a good process. It should be trying to measure objectively (like PT did) how fair and balances refereeing looks. Then identify bias.

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

Then work out on a case by case bias the cause of that bias AND remove that particular referee from situation(s)/team(s) where they display an obvious bias.

babuyagu.bsky.social•1 day ago

As a fan, I really don't give a fuck WHY Coote refereed us how he did. Or Oliver. Or Taylor. Or Atkinson. Or any other. I have my own ideas why. But they don't matter.

Instead, I want the PGMOL to find a way to screen for bias and objectively assess refereeing performances with data, be transparent

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