A thing I did not think about until I had it explained to me: it is *incredibly cruel* to make someone go through puberty as the wrong gender. If they’re sure enough that they’re trans to want gender-affirming care before that happens, it’s just monstrous to keep it from them. - ThreadSky

thielman.bsky.social • 73 days ago

A thing I did not think about until I had it explained to me: it is *incredibly cruel* to make someone go through puberty as the wrong gender. If they’re sure enough that they’re trans to want gender-affirming care before that happens, it’s just monstrous to keep it from them.

Comments

alwayserked.bsky.social•73 days ago

My sense is the haters want these kids to have to go through puberty to make it harder to hide/change their anatomy later in life.

debaucheryxo.bsky.social•73 days ago

The disparity between how you are treated when you are trans when you are able to be stealth vs not passing is huge

People are not kind to people that do not fit societies standards. Even conservatives are more okay with passing trans people. This is a huge deal in how the persons life will go

jakereeves.bsky.social•73 days ago

Every day of puberty is the body you didn't want cementing itself as a final product. It's the slowest motion torture. Every new facial hair for a girl. Every cup size for a boy. It's unbelievably torturous

braak.bsky.social•73 days ago

I saw some people talking recently about how the idea with puberty blockers was that it was a compromise, because the terfs figured that if they let kids who *thought* they were trans avoid puberty, eventually they'd change their minds and be cis instead, but

braak.bsky.social•73 days ago

it didn't happen, almost all of the kids on blockers went ahead and stayed trans and pursued HRT or gender-affirming surgery, because yeah, they knew who they were all right.

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•73 days ago

...almost all? I'm pretty sure it's the opposite, about 65% of kids who are ever provided with puberty blockers leave care. In the US. Caveats, this is incredibly difficult to measure for multiple reasons, so I'll go look tomorrow and delete my post if I'm wrong.

braak.bsky.social•73 days ago

I'm specifically referring to kids on puberty blockers who are using them because they are trans; my understanding is that most puberty blockers are prescribed for cis kids for reasons unrelated to gender identity, but this is not my area of expertise, I'm just relaxing what I observed.

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•73 days ago

That's definitely right--puberty blockers are for kids who need to grow up more before puberty. The reasons they are best served by postponing puberty include gender dysphoria, but that's a tiny minority. The thing is, most of *those* kids do not continue to cross sex hormones, and that's OK too.

braak.bsky.social•73 days ago

Yeah, which I guess is why I'm confused, because this is something I see trans people say all the time? I don't disagree with you here at all I'm just not sure where there's any conflcit with any type of agenda.

teaberryblue.net•73 days ago

You’re wrong. In the largest study on the subject approximately 98% of children who went on puberty blockers ~for gender dysphoria-related reasons~ eventually continued on to some sort of gender transition care.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/26/1131398960/gender-affirming-care-trans-puberty-suppression-teens

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•73 days ago

This is really interesting. Thanks! It doesn't square with the limited data from US providers, but that's not surprising given the challenges of gathering data in the US "system" over a long timeframe. US health care data can't be comprehensive in the way data from a national health care system is.

robertbieber.bsky.social•73 days ago

Most kids who go on puberty blockers aren't trans, so stats based on all kids who get prescribed them won't necessarily apply to trans youth specifically

nothingisamiss.bsky.social•73 days ago

Could one of the things that's confounding your data be that it includes children on puberty blockers for precocious puberty? Hormones in those cases are discontinued

teaberryblue.net•73 days ago

You haven’t cited your supposed US numbers and frankly I think your participation in this conversation has been very irresponsible. You say you may be wrong, don’t cite your sources, and say you’ll delete later, when the responsible thing to do would be to check that you had your data right ~first.~

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•73 days ago

...is this why we're not supposed to mention the damage anti-trans laws do to the children who benefit from kicking the can on puberty & do not end up living a trans identity (vast majority of the kids who use this treatment)? OK. Thanks for explaining why I'm tagged 'transphobic'! Now I get it.

braak.bsky.social•73 days ago

I don't know but I think any time you talk about something you're "not supposed to mention" you're implicitly accepting a framework that your interlocutors are liars who hate the truth, rather than people who might not know something or who disagree with you,

braak.bsky.social•73 days ago

so, I mean, me, if I was doing that, I would wonder if people maybe just didn't like me and were arguing with me for that reason.

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•73 days ago

no, I think some self-styled authorities on trans kids are pretty quick to attack anyone who says a fact they don't think aligns with their agenda

but again, I'll look it up and delete if I'm wrong, I'm wrong sometimes

braak.bsky.social•73 days ago

Yeah I mean, "don't think aligns with their agenda", I'm not saying that you are doing this, but that is definitely the kind of language that is used by people who are trying to discredit trans people as deranged activists. Like, you can see why they'd be defensive, right?

braak.bsky.social•73 days ago

Even if your goal is just to point out that banning puberty blockers is bad for kids of all sorts, there's nothing particularly in conflict with trans people there -- the only agenda is "kids should have access to blockers if it will help them".

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•73 days ago

Yes, I understand, and: building political power requires allying with people who agree with you about 50%+ of your goals and 100% of your values.

I want trans advocates to get better at building power as fast as possible, so fewer children & youth are abused by politicians.

Do you want that too?

thielman.bsky.social•73 days ago

Puberty is bad enough without it being a body-horror movie every day

dustinheron.bsky.social•73 days ago

Sounds bad but I've been told the bigger problem is Echo Chambers.

librariansteve.bsky.social•73 days ago

A trans person I know put it this way: you watch a body part growing & the horror is the equivalent of watching a vine sprout from your abdomen & you can do nothing about it continuing to grow without surgery.

maryangelaperna.bsky.social•73 days ago

💯💯💯PERFECTLY STATED (please write a piece on this)

thielman.bsky.social•73 days ago

I’m not sure that’s my place but thank you!

edidin.bsky.social•73 days ago

yes but: other cis people will listen to you where they won't listen to us

maryangelaperna.bsky.social•73 days ago

🙏💙

maryangelaperna.bsky.social•73 days ago

So well written

vickythelabrat.bsky.social•72 days ago

This. I know and love a few trans people, and going through puberty twice is awful. Plus... trans men have to also go through a kind of menopause, so it's even worse for them.

stickfigured.bsky.social•73 days ago

It's NOT equivalent, but remembering the disorienting, scary feeling of not recognizing my body after 2 kids - the "me" in my head didn't match what I saw - makes my stomach knot to think of others interfering, judging, demonizing, making laws about your identity & body. And ON TOP of puberty??

bawalker.bsky.social•72 days ago

It is essentially torture

diana.ellefson.dev•73 days ago

some people are so scared of people making permanent changes to their bodies during puberty...
like smh thats the point of puberty... if you are so scared of permanent changes then how about giving us blockers?? its puberty that can't be undone...

mendingmadness.bsky.social•73 days ago

The how to be a girl podcast has a really beautiful episode on this (the whole podcast is about a mom raising a trans girl who is in her teens now but it started when she was much younger and they do a few episodes a year)

theophanesavery.bsky.social•72 days ago

That is the point. These people would rather drive these kids to suicide than acknowledge they exist and will continue doing so in defiance of their onlookers' beliefs. Basically the idea of being outside the gender norm makes them so uncomfortable they feel justified in killing them.

dadx2bs.bsky.social•73 days ago

How can a child that young be sure?

hauman.bsky.social•73 days ago

Weren’t you sure at that age?

uneasywriter.bsky.social•73 days ago

That’s a question cis people need to be asked more often: how sure were *you* when you were a child that you were a boy or a girl?

dadx2bs.bsky.social•73 days ago

Eh. Not impressed with this argument. Tweens go through phases and are easily manipulated. They also overcommit bc of a lack of perspective.

I'm not going to say tweens should never be offered gender affirming care, but it does sound like some of these clinics were over-inclusive.

hauman.bsky.social•73 days ago

Eh. Not impressed with you avoiding my question. Weren’t you sure at that age?

dadx2bs.bsky.social•72 days ago

I don't recall.

hauman.bsky.social•71 days ago

I bet if someone else had veto power and was deciding for you, you'd recall.

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