The problem remains: you're not going to convince enough people to become vegan to actually change the industry. The change needs to come from changing the mode of production, which requires a vanguard party. And it's revisionist to put cultural change ahead of economic change. - ThreadSky

transcommiescum.bsky.social • 51 days ago

The problem remains: you're not going to convince enough people to become vegan to actually change the industry. The change needs to come from changing the mode of production, which requires a vanguard party. And it's revisionist to put cultural change ahead of economic change.

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eriness.sparkle.blue•51 days ago

we can reduce suffering by going vegan now while simultaneously working towards abolishing the industry.

It's like how I don't think Vietnam vets can stop the war by dodging the draft, but you should anyways.

transcommiescum.bsky.social•51 days ago

You're ignoring the fact that that is not going to happen. Veganism isn't some new movement. I've known about it since the '90s. I was briefly a vegan. It's not making any fundamental difference in anything. You're wasting your energy. That's all I'm saying. Focusing on the economics is imperative.

eriness.sparkle.blue•51 days ago

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41055-018-00030-4

I mean, there have been studies on it. It saves lives. It won't abolish factory farming, but it does actually make a difference even on an individual level.

eriness.sparkle.blue•51 days ago

> Third, we argue that there are good reasons to believe that single individual consumers—not just consumers in aggregate—really do make a positive difference when they choose to abstain from meat consumption.

transcommiescum.bsky.social•51 days ago

How much of a difference, though? To be honest, this is a very idealist approach to change. I'm telling you that we can make an even bigger difference in a shorter period of time. What do you think happens when we stop producing meat for exchange value?

eriness.sparkle.blue•51 days ago

I'm not expecting everyone to go vegan, though. I'm expecting leftists to be able to understand that they shouldn't personally be paying to have sentient beings killed.

If it's actually impossible for you, that's one thing, but we can reduce the amount of suffering in the world right now.

eriness.sparkle.blue•51 days ago

"it is likely that a consumer, when choosing to buy a chicken, has close to a 1/900 chance of being on the threshold, and if a consumer decision triggers the threshold event, the impact will be that 900 fewer chickens will be sold that year."

It depends on how many animals you eat, avg america 100s

transcommiescum.bsky.social•51 days ago

That's not the economics I'm talking about. I'm talking about focusing on creating an entirely different economic system. I think you're much less likely to get enough people to be vegan than to create a proletarian state that makes every industry more humane.

eriness.sparkle.blue•51 days ago

I mean, you said that there's no point in any one individual going vegan, and then I linked a study to refute that.

transcommiescum.bsky.social•51 days ago

No, anyone who wants to be vegan can be vegan. I'm not against veganism at all. What I'm saying is that it's a waste of time and energy to try and make people become vegan when we could focus on what will actually drastically reduce how much meat is produced. Culture does not change before economics

transcommiescum.bsky.social•51 days ago

Not to mention that consuming meat is a big part of nearly every culture on earth. Demanding that they all become vegan is extremely ethnocentric.

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