In 1911 Baseball Magazine named 18 men to its Hall of Fame, incl Anson, Delahanty, Kelly. Six may surprise: Charlie Ferguson, Ned Williamson, Charlie Bennett, Fred Pfeffer, Jerry Denny, Jim Fogarty. Only 25 years later, when Cooperstown began to elect, all were in history's dustbin. - ThreadSky

johnthorn.bsky.social • 28 days ago

In 1911 Baseball Magazine named 18 men to its Hall of Fame, incl Anson, Delahanty, Kelly. Six may surprise: Charlie Ferguson, Ned Williamson, Charlie Bennett, Fred Pfeffer, Jerry Denny, Jim Fogarty. Only 25 years later, when Cooperstown began to elect, all were in history's dustbin.

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rudygamble.bsky.social•28 days ago

Looking at their stats…seems like Baseball Magazine made more questionable choices than HOF committees - at least with those six vs Duffy, O’Rourke, Nichols, etc

hardballcrazy.bsky.social•28 days ago

Love to read the article and see what they say about each player. Try to understand their thought process

johnthorn.bsky.social•28 days ago

Available here. Search for "hall of fame" ... https://bit.ly/4aCP9F3

hardballcrazy.bsky.social•28 days ago

Thanks John

hardballcrazy.bsky.social•28 days ago

Charlie Bennett! Heck ya! His name should be more recognized and celebrated.

krisweinschenker.bsky.social•28 days ago

America will join them in the dustbin of history, thanks to Trump and @democrats.org

johnthorn.bsky.social•28 days ago

The 18 greatest, as of 1911: Cobb, Wagner, Lajoie, Anson, Ewing, Spalding, G. Wright, Delahanty, Brouthers, Ward, Comiskey, Kelly. Not in today's Hall of Fame: Williamson, Ferguson, Bennett, Pfeffer, Denny, Fogarty.

fworsley.bsky.social•28 days ago

Baseball Magazine must have been run by...well...
How could they pass over Old Hoss, Cy Young, Roger Connor, John Clarkson, just to name a few?

johnthorn.bsky.social•28 days ago

We have the benefit of career statistics; in 1911 fans did not.

fworsley.bsky.social•28 days ago

True, still, "Baseball Magazine" must have been edited by a person having a good knowledge of the game. There must have been criticism even then about some of their choices.

pauldietrich.bsky.social•28 days ago

Charlie Bennett! The first great true catcher.

johnthorn.bsky.social•28 days ago

I think he is the only former player to have a ballpark named for him. ("The House That Ruth Built" doesn't count.)

vohnhenk.bsky.social•27 days ago

What about Griffith Stadium? Clark Griffith was a heck of a ballplayer before he became an exec and owner.

johnthorn.bsky.social•27 days ago

Like Mack, he named it for himself; doesn't count for me.

vohnhenk.bsky.social•27 days ago

Fair enough!

cooperstowndave.bsky.social•28 days ago

Yep! Just Charlie.

(Save for player-owners like Comiskey/Mack and that Hiram Bithorn Stadium has hosted a bunch of MLB games.)

ctgriffes.bsky.social•28 days ago

Makes me wonder what Cooperstown would look like if we started from zero now.

johnthorn.bsky.social•28 days ago

Tastes change, as do styles of play. Today we go for sabermetric measures of greatness.

justmckinney.bsky.social•28 days ago

I suspect Ferguson and Fogarty's early passings influenced their selection. Williamson was very well thought of and had his career shortened by injury. There's also an anti-AA bias, no Stovey or Browning. Also anti-pitcher, only Ward and Spalding.

justmckinney.bsky.social•28 days ago

Edit: Ferguson also a pitcher.

mattalbertson.bsky.social•28 days ago

Ferguson has the "what if?" scenario. His career was electric. Fogarty is sort of a head scratcher.

johnthorn.bsky.social•28 days ago

The stolen bases are a clue.

cooperstowndave.bsky.social•28 days ago

I imagine it’s largely the tragedy of his death.

He was though an elite defender and stole a lot of bases.

justmckinney.bsky.social•28 days ago

Yeah, that is sense I get. I think it would interesting to identify Hall candidates where their reputation was massive, but the stats underwhelm. Thinking of guys like Hal Chase, who considered an all-time great 1B, but the stats don't indicate anything special.

justmckinney.bsky.social•28 days ago

Just searching for Jimmy Fogarty from around 1910 and there a swath of articles comparing him to Ty Cobb as the best outfielder of all time. The first clipping was from a syndicated column that reads like a Tim Murnane joint to me, but no author is listed.

mattalbertson.bsky.social•28 days ago

This makes sense. They valued defense over offense because, quite frankly, defense was more challenging than it is today. Likely, Fogarty was barehanded as an outfielder in the 1880s.

johnthorn.bsky.social•28 days ago

The early demise of Ferguson and Fogarty, both so promising, may have played in.

landammann.bsky.social•28 days ago

Given Williamson’s credible case for Cooperstown itself, I was surprised to see recently that he is not even in the Cubs Team Hall of Fame (nor Bill Dahlen). I would love to see the Cubs remedy that, and in turn perhaps shine a little light on his case.

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