ICYMI, ETA's response to Amtrak's report. Amtrak claims through-running isn't possible and pushes its unnecessary Penn Expansion project. Our analysis shows the report is incorrect and sufficient improvements can be made within Penn Station's existing footprint. www.etany.org/penn-station... - ThreadSky

etany.org • 37 days ago

ICYMI, ETA's response to Amtrak's report.

Amtrak claims through-running isn't possible and pushes its unnecessary Penn Expansion project.

Our analysis shows the report is incorrect and sufficient improvements can be made within Penn Station's existing footprint.
https://www.etany.org/penn-station-can-handle-the-load

Comments

kobkob333.bsky.social•37 days ago

. @stephenjacobsmith.com Please Explain this to me like Im 5. My understanding of the lack of through-running at Penn is not only political but technical. The LIRR uses a different 3rd rail than Metro-North. NJT & Amtrak uses overhead wire, the Empire Connection isn’t electrified at all.

khyber.bsky.social•36 days ago

To begin with, the NEC is immediately through-runnable and Amtrak does so today. You need 25 Hz transformers to do this, so only Amtrak and NJT equipment can do this rn, but it'd be simple to make a lighter M8 (under new alternative compliance) with a 25 Hz transformer.

khyber.bsky.social•36 days ago

Once you have this M10, an M8-like train with a 25 Hz transformer, it can through run to NJ, and it's shoes are flippable, so it can run on LIRR third rail, too.

khyber.bsky.social•36 days ago

The only restriction is height at that point for certain tunnels like 63rd St, which you can reduce the height for and recess the pantographs, which has been done for similarly tight tunnels in the UK before.

khyber.bsky.social•36 days ago

Or you can also convert the NEC in NJ to 25 kV 60 Hz, as the catenary needs replacing with constant tension catenary anyways, and the substations need replacing as well. In that case, the M8s could run anywhere electrified.

johnericson.me•36 days ago

Also with Penn Station Access + 60 Hz everywhere, Metro North trains should just continue on the NEC

khyber.bsky.social•36 days ago

As for the diesel branches, best would be to just wire them, but if that takes too long, DEMUs or BEMUs would be a good intermediate.

captengu.bsky.social•36 days ago

Most substation electrical equipment was fully replaced about a decade ago and does not need to be replaced a second time. Constant tension wire is already being installed as funding and track outages allow; this has nothing to do with line voltage.

uckema.com•36 days ago

This is as an engineering project nightmarish as you would have to replace all the motor generators with static converters, rebuild the dam from 25hz to 60hz. This is legit “technically possible but massively disruptive to the grid”

charliefrom215.bsky.social•36 days ago

Why would you replace the PRR power system, or any of the power systems in general when alot of these have been completely rebuilt in recent years. Let alone the 10s or 100s of billions needed for this that could go to fixing capacity/accessibility/SOGR issues along these massive systems.

meehan.nyc•37 days ago

The technical barriers are entirely surmountable. We've got another report on it :) https://www.etany.org/not-so-capital-plan-the-future-is-electric

stephenjacobsmith.com•37 days ago

I think the ETA report explains it better than I could!

christosilvia.bsky.social•36 days ago

*should* so many Long Distance trains originate in New York? We can keep running those trains further up the corridor to terminate them if we want to reduce the dwell time at Penn. I would be happy to get more long distance trains in Boston!

khyber.bsky.social•35 days ago

I think you can just move them a bit earlier or later if you have to. Just outside of the 8-9 am peak of the peak rush. Leaving at 7 am or 10 am instead of 8 or 9 would be good enough.

progwml6.bsky.social•36 days ago

there are other constraints further north that would complicate that unfortunately. there are so few of those that they are not really as major of a complication as you would think to the scheduling.

christosilvia.bsky.social•36 days ago

I am so eager to demolish every structure above the Penn station platforms, but only if there's a comprehensive plan for platforms which will allow for adequate circulation

https://bsky.app/profile/christosilvia.bsky.social/post/3lfy45x6xbk2x

ahenneberg.bsky.social•37 days ago

I was told that you can't empty a 12 car NJT bilevel in 5 minutes from someone on the inside. Contradicts your report - what explains the gap?

khyber.bsky.social•36 days ago

I'm not sure where they're getting that number. If you go time it, it does not take a whole 5 min.

ahenneberg.bsky.social•36 days ago

yea - I don't have enough info to make an informed opinion either way. Just want the trains to work better lol

uckema.com•36 days ago

It does, I can time it at NYC or like Raritan or Sommerville or Dover

rileymetal.bsky.social•32 days ago

Only worthwhile if the MTA and NJT and probably PATH get merged into one transit agency first.

aprice1828.bsky.social•36 days ago

Literally every "what about..." can be responded with "Do you know how much money $16B is?"

Penn Station expansion gets us a larger Penn Station.

Every other solution gets us operational benefits from Trenton to New Haven

khyber.bsky.social•36 days ago

Plus that's just the initial estimate. If the costs balloon 3x again for another midtown cavern like GCM, it'll be $50 billion. You could wire 27k kms of double track for that money, for example.

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply