Crazy indeed. A battery the size of a train has much wasted potential if not connected to the grid full time. It's problematic on many levels, not least climate justice which appears ready to be sacrificed.
I like that Xcel is shining a light on the absurdity of their available options.
I always remind myself that climate change is human caused. Human wants, human decisions, human culture, human laws cause the damage every bit as much as fossil fuels and the gobbling of forests.
The power equivalent of that line about the internet being less effective at transmitting information than a U-Haul full of Zip drives, or something like that
I'm no kind of expert, but, I mean, trains and train tracks already exist, whereas transmission lines take years and lots of legal hassles to build, so . . .
Way too many issues with easements, rights of way, access points, and ownership and liability. It would also turn an East Palestine into a potential wildfire on top of the chemical fire.
I suspect the massive lithium batteries are more prone to turning an East Palestine into a wild fire than the derailing train directly colliding with a pylon & the broken cable both remaining live and coming into direct contact with a fuel.
“We need to transport power by train!”
“Why?”
“We can’t build overhead power lines.”
“But diesel causes CO2…”
“Oh, that’s just to start—then we switch to electric trains!”
“Powered by the batteries?”
“No, that would be a waste!”
“Then how?”
“Overhead power lines, of course.”
“…”
Next step: Overpower the overhead lines to also . Sounds like a great plan to actually get transmission lines built.
Wow, look at this: In Japan: "The transport ministry is considering using the overhead lines that supply electricity to trains as networks to transmit renewable energy."
Ramez Naam specified $15-$60 per MWh (1.5-6ct per kWh) for 1000 mile transmission lines (15-60 times less). Oh wow, that is - not at all close but still surprisingly "close".
Those are my 2ct on the matter. I don't care enough to comment on whether there is any niche for this service.
I’m not an expert on this however it may not be as crazy as it sounds. Between 6 and 2 per cent of power is lost during transmission which depends on:
the distance of the generator from customers, voltage and resistance of the transmission lines and
how much power is flowing through the lines.
Comments
This cries out for @donoteat.bsky.social making fun of it...
I always remind myself that climate change is human caused. Human wants, human decisions, human culture, human laws cause the damage every bit as much as fossil fuels and the gobbling of forests.
Most power lines that fall don’t start fires.
“Why?”
“We can’t build overhead power lines.”
“But diesel causes CO2…”
“Oh, that’s just to start—then we switch to electric trains!”
“Powered by the batteries?”
“No, that would be a waste!”
“Then how?”
“Overhead power lines, of course.”
“…”
Wow, look at this: In Japan: "The transport ministry is considering using the overhead lines that supply electricity to trains as networks to transmit renewable energy."
source: https://www.costmine.com/wp-content/smush-webp/2024/03/Rail-Transport-Image-1-1536x730.png.webp
source: https://valleyindustrialtrucks.com/what-is-the-energy-density-of-a-lithium-ion-battery/ (they specify in Wh/kg, which is equivalent)
So we have $160/0.16 MWh = $1000/MWh (beautiful math right there) and 1000 miles, or $1/kWh.
Those are my 2ct on the matter. I don't care enough to comment on whether there is any niche for this service.
Here is his article (from 2015): https://rameznaam.com/2015/08/30/how-steady-can-the-wind-blow/cost-of-ac-and-hvdc-transmission-lines-from-handlemanpost/
I refuse to dive into this, it is just too stupid. :D
the distance of the generator from customers, voltage and resistance of the transmission lines and
how much power is flowing through the lines.
https://solarray.blogspot.com/2022/07/playing-with-electric-trains-as-climate.html
Clean energy, just about anywhere you like.