Once again, I'm considering supporting "fused" executables in my game-engine, i.e. appending assets to the executable itself. Does anyone have specific experience with how anti-virus/anti-malware software would react? I suspect they could deem them as unsafe... #gamedev #indiedev #gameengine - ThreadSky

mode13h.dev • 59 days ago

Once again, I'm considering supporting "fused" executables in my game-engine, i.e. appending assets to the executable itself.

Does anyone have specific experience with how anti-virus/anti-malware software would react?

I suspect they could deem them as unsafe...

#gamedev #indiedev #gameengine

Comments

tigwyk.tv•59 days ago

Well now I'm following along just to learn about this. I've a tiny bit of experience with malware and anti-malware and I'm curious to hear responses.

juhrjuhr.bsky.social•59 days ago

In my games I add assets as .Net embedded resources which are written to the executable. It sounds similar to what you're describing and I've never had any reported issues (but that's from a few hundred installs).

mode13h.dev•59 days ago

When using embedded resources (being them .NET ones, Windows native ones... and even Android has a similar concept) they... well, embedded :) into the executable using a specific format. This is well known (and defined) and they usually cause no harm.

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mode13h.dev•59 days ago

I'm talking about brutally appending the data to the executable, like gluing them together. Then I'll access it with a custom "loader", of course. The approach is similar to the one used by executable packers and (sometimes) malicious software.

:)

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juhrjuhr.bsky.social•59 days ago

So a bit different :) I take it following the same spec as the one used by .Net is either not possible or too much work to be worth it (appending sounds way easier)

kethercortex.bsky.social•59 days ago

Are you sure you will have access to the contents of executable file? I'm pretty tired right now and may misremember something, but sandboxing can be pretty brutal at times.

mode13h.dev•58 days ago

Yes, this is definitely possible. I have a (dumb) PoC that works on Linux. I need to test it on Windows as well (I need to bring a VM up).

kethercortex.bsky.social•59 days ago

As far as I remember, Windows executable format (PE) supports "resources" — addressable data chunks (like icons).

There are predefined resource types, including "binary" where you can put whatever you want. You can also specify your own types.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_(Windows)

kethercortex.bsky.social•59 days ago

Resources are made specifically for non-program data and their inclusion shouldn't trigger antivirus. Just appending some stuff after the chunks described in .exe header looks somewhat suspicious though.

If you are using .NET, it should also use PE format (if nothing changed in the recent years).

mode13h.dev•59 days ago

Thanks for your contribution! 😊 I've been working with Windows since 1995 and I'm decently aware of how resources are used (hint: they are even more useful when packed into a DLL).

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mode13h.dev•59 days ago

I'm considering a different (hacky) approach that fits both Linux and Windows builds (as my game engine is multiplatform).

I also suspect this would trigger antivirus programs (warez software usually does the same), but I need some first-hand experience! 😋

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kethercortex.bsky.social•59 days ago

Linux ELF format also has support for sections, including read only data ones. Won't recommend dealing with that though.

IMHO it would've been easier to have any number of files (or one), with the final executable being a self-extracting archive with actual program launching after extraction.

mode13h.dev•58 days ago

To be precise, I don't want to create a self-extracting executable or alter the file-system content in any way. I just want to avoid having an executable (the main game-engine) and one (or more) archives with the assets.

kethercortex.bsky.social•59 days ago

I still remember 96kb .kkrieger demo that was spending a few minutes unpacking/generating resources before launching the 3d shooter.

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