Two widely believed illusions: 1. The “self” (“you” live inside of—yet separate from—your body/brain). 2. Free will (you create/control your thoughts, choices, and/or actions). Her spouse, Sam, also discusses this, but I prefer her summary. #self #freewill #neuroscience youtu.be/_Ig9MOv54cg?... - ThreadSky

cefrayer.bsky.social • 52 days ago

Two widely believed illusions:

1. The “self” (“you” live inside of—yet separate from—your body/brain).

2. Free will (you create/control your thoughts, choices, and/or actions).

Her spouse, Sam, also discusses this, but I prefer her summary. #self #freewill #neuroscience
https://youtu.be/_Ig9MOv54cg?si=eud8MwU_5AaCf43j

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dickretired.bsky.social•52 days ago

The first is an illusion. The second isn’t. The Libet findings are cited as if they show it is the brain that decides. But I am my brain and my body; so the brain is not pushing me. Free will would be an illusion if I (my brain and body) was forced to everything.

cefrayer.bsky.social•52 days ago

To be clear, as a retired tech attorney, this is *not* my area of expertise.

With that in mind, please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Libet experiment occur in the 80s and involve physical movement?

Ms. Harris (@ ~3:32) references an unnamed experiment from 2013 involving math operators.

dickretired.bsky.social•52 days ago

No you are right. But my point about the brain not forcing me still applies, doesn’t it. I know there are many who disagree with what I said.

cefrayer.bsky.social•52 days ago

If your point is accurate, either experiment applies.

But (& this is too complex for BlueSky char limits) what else can we deduce from 2013 experimenters knowing subjects’ choices up to 4 seconds before they were made.

How does this recent discovery factor in?
https://neurosciencenews.com/brain-thinking-sensory-speed-28292/

dickretired.bsky.social•52 days ago

Over sensory versus cognitive speed, the reason why cognitive speed is slow is that prefrontal sits at the top of the processing hierarchy, puts information together via dense intercocctions and makes decisions about perception and action.

dickretired.bsky.social•52 days ago

We showed this an experiment by John Haynes and I using fMRI. But our ability to predict, though statistically significant, was not far above chance. And using a different way of getting at the decision another lab has shown that the decision is earlier than we thought.

cefrayer.bsky.social•51 days ago

I confess I’m a bit lost (& not worth your time to educate me), but also fascinated. Here’s the unnamed study she referenced.

Not sure how to interpret your post. Do you mean diff lab showed < or > 4 s btwn neural decode & subject decision reporting?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23509300/

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