classic Zionist villainy to claim that antizionists are some slim fringe minority. 1 out of every 5 people is not a miniscule amount of people! - ThreadSky

57ark.bsky.social • 1 day ago

classic Zionist villainy to claim that antizionists are some slim fringe minority.

1 out of every 5 people is not a miniscule amount of people!

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57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

of course, speaking internally, the real test comes in the form of those 1/5 actually voicing antizionism in their Jewish communities and spaces. Most Zionist spaces have basically no tolerance for that.

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

meaning Antizionist Jews have to nut up and step up to two massive issues: building safe community for AZ Jews and those marginalized by mainstream (and largely Zionist) Jewish institutions, and marketing the shit out of it to actually help give voices to more AZ Jews.

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

and it cannot be said enough that devotion to the cause of Liberating Palestine must be centered in AZ Jewish spaces. It's not facile or mundane in the slightest to take a serious, principled stance against ethnonationalism fascism. When evil is banal, no path forward but to get your hands messy.

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

*ethnonationalism/fascism

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

The crucial vector of antizionism is creating Judaism that doesn't just distance itself from Israel, but also actively takes a stance against the Zionist project. It's not enough to point out the failures of Israeli Neoliberalism when the entire state needs to be dismantled.

postingtreyf.bsky.social•1 day ago

Plenty of liberal Zionist Jews are for not-Cuomo candidates as well. Never mind that Israel isn’t even a top 5 priority for most Jewish American voter. They care about domestic issues first and foremost because they’re American, not Israeli. >>

postingtreyf.bsky.social•1 day ago

You can’t shove Jews into the antizionist/zionist binary and expect to understand how/why Jews vote and politically organize the way they do.

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

I don't think that statement is wrong esoterically speaking, but when you read it out loud, it sounds a bit farcical.

I think that analyzing Jewish voting and political organizational tendencies kind of... Necessitates asking questions about the role Zionism/Antizionism play.

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

I feel like understanding Zionism, as a political movement and organization, kinda necessitates interrogating its relationship with Jewish communities, inside or outside of the Levant.

It involves interrogating its role in western Christian communities as well, don't get me wrong.

postingtreyf.bsky.social•1 day ago

Anecdotally, I don’t think most Jews who’d probably say “yeah” if asked whether they’re Zionist don’t think about Israel as much as Antizionists. “A Jewish state in our homeland should exist” is about as deep as they probably get. It’s likely a smaller & louder portion who have a deeper opinion.

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

sure, but like.

that's still zionism. passively believing in zionist thought and acting accordingly is still materially and meaningfully zionism, whether one identifies with it or not, whether one meaningfully self-interrogates it or not.

daveapong.bsky.social•1 day ago

This scene from “Mad Men” is probably the average opinion: https://youtu.be/BBgyUXN1SY0?si=95orem6Wxsem4c2q

postingtreyf.bsky.social•1 day ago

Based on years of surveys from the Jewish Electorate Institute, Jewish Americans consistently prioritize domestic issues over Israel. You could assume that AZ Jews are further to the left than the normative Jew, but a survey would need to be done to confirm that. >>>

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

i like how i just said "we should interrogate the role zionism plays in jewish politics" and you were like "okay but what if we didn't because clearly everyone votes because of their own material circumstances"

like no shit sherlock, that's not what i'm talking about here.

postingtreyf.bsky.social•1 day ago

I’m not saying we shouldn’t. It’d be interesting to see how the data correlates with voting patterns, especially in Dem primaries given the overall political position of the majority of Jewish voters. I think our point of disagreement is how much influence it has.

postingtreyf.bsky.social•1 day ago

The other problem with the binary is that non-/post-zionists exist. The theoretical survey would help in determining if that group is statistically significant or not.

57ark.bsky.social•1 day ago

so are we getting to this survey before or after taking meaningful action against the genocide of palestine? just want to get my story straight for when we're being called to testify at nuremburg.

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