It would really help manage expectations and increase awareness of opportunities if we reframed these discussions as "40% of postdocs, well-trained and experienced, choose to work in the many alternative occupations and industries outside universities". - ThreadSky

petraboynton.bsky.social • 34 days ago

It would really help manage expectations and increase awareness of opportunities if we reframed these discussions as "40% of postdocs, well-trained and experienced, choose to work in the many alternative occupations and industries outside universities".

Reposted from Academic Publishing News

More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, according to study using data from Microsoft Academic Graph www.nature.com/articles/d41...

Comments

petraboynton.bsky.social•34 days ago

Suggesting the only kind of PhD that matters, or that we base career pathways on, is a lab-based STEM one that ends in a university appointment is really unhelpful. It's why people ignore their skills, don't seek wider careers advice, or feel like they've failed if they don't end up in a lectureship

petraboynton.bsky.social•34 days ago

There are many jobs in universities you can do with a PhD (and without one). And there are infinitely more jobs your PhD can lead to outside universities. Academia doesn't equal university and your skills can match jobs in industry, the third sector, health, education, government, dog walking...

petraboynton.bsky.social•34 days ago

Okay, maybe not dog walking (unless you did your PhD in dogs). But a colleague did this a while back when their department closed. They're quite mucky now, but happy. We're not better or special or cleverer for working in a university. Jobs exist outside - and work isn't the only thing that matters.

tessakendall.bsky.social•34 days ago

I agree. You can make an academic contribution through your PhD and then move into an entirely different sector that would benefit from your way of thinking and portable skills. No experience is wasted.

petraboynton.bsky.social•34 days ago

I often tell people my best skill is touch typing. I had to take typing it at school as it was the only lesson left after the physics and needlework teachers refused to have me 😂 It's been the most useful thing in so many ways. At the time I hated and dismissed it. You never know what'll be useful.

tessakendall.bsky.social•34 days ago

One of my best skills is curiosity: asking questions, looking stuff up and then sharing. You could call it research and communication or just 'Hey, look at this weird/fun/obscure thing I found'.

sophiacollins.bsky.social•34 days ago

And, basically, there are not enough postdoc jobs for all the qualified people. The structural expectation is that many of them will go into industry, teaching, etc. I do not understand why people always frame it this way.

petraboynton.bsky.social•34 days ago

I don't think that is the structural expectation (at least outside unis). The model is also based on PhD = STEM subject and advice built on that, which is unhelpful. There are jobs in schools, charities, health, social care, and loads more. Might need additional training, however, but not impossible

petraboynton.bsky.social•34 days ago

Unfortunately many absorb the message, or are explicitly taught, that a PhD is the best qualification there is and it's beneath you to work anywhere other than a university. Which is so limiting for so many and causes or worsens a lot of the distress around work and futures we're seeing currently.

sophiacollins.bsky.social•34 days ago

I also don’t get why it’s always, “we must encourage more people to study science, so there will be enough scientists.” People coming out of PhDs are scrabbling for postdoc jobs! Yes, women and minorities are underrepresented. But if there’s an oversupply of PhDs. Which ones will get the few jobs?

petraboynton.bsky.social•34 days ago

Completely agree. And, in support of your point, there's not enough jobs, minorities are underrepresented, but they're also leaving because the work environment isn't welcoming. The whole system is misleading and messed up. More and more PGRs for fewer and less stable lectureships is untenable.

sophiacollins.bsky.social•34 days ago

100% yes. When people say, we need to get more women and minorities into physics, I always tell them they should start by being nicer to the ones they already have.
If more women *stayed* in physics, maybe it wouldn’t be such an off-putting sausage-fest.

metaomicsnerd.bsky.social•34 days ago

Yeah, this framing comes across as generated by someone whose brain is overly marinated in academia

eleph.bsky.social•33 days ago

Yes, this!!! Thank you for expressing this so clearly.

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply