Then let them do it, and take the blame. Shutting down the government won't check Republicans power. It'll just negate any argument you have that government is necessary.
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WE are not shutting down the govt by voting no; we’re keeping our fingerprints off of the shitshow by saying “we will not participate in or fund the destruction & dismantling of America, the economy, and our way of life — which is exactly what Trump and Musk are doing right before your eyes.”
If I'm a Republican, I'll modify for you. "We will not participate in the funding of America"
This CR is a giant shit sandwich and we have no choice but to take a bite, for no doing so will be far worse.
No, you are wrong on the reframing, for precisely the reason I stated. The polls show that what Trump/Musk are doing is NOT popular — which is why Republicans are hiding from their own voters, for crying out loud. Very few voters would be unsympathetic to the Dems’ messaging proposed above.
Republicans don't get the blame now. Democrats get the blame now. All of this is now on Democrats, when they could have made the choice that would have allowed them to say it is on Republicans. Schumer(R) owns this now.
"Let's not get in the way and Trump will defeat himself" has been the strategy for ten fucking years, and this is where that strategy has landed us. I don't know why you think the millionth time will be the charm.
The same fkin people who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Harris are the ones who are going to blame the Dems for the consequences of losing elections. I'm sick off it.
Oh yeah
I remember this when we lived in normal times
Trump breaks the law everyday
When he refuses to obey court order then what?
Schumer give another floor speech
We are over the Rubicon, lead the fight
A portrait in what passes for cent-corp-Dem courage. This is the feckless, 1990s politick that got us into this disaster. Just give the authoritarian fascists time. This’ll all work out in the end.
I wonder what would even be left of the government after if we shut it down.
Trumpmusk would probably fire another 100,000 people.
Lots of people pretend to know the obvious "better path" now.
I'm not convinced they know what they're talking about.
Mostly they just want to place blame and lash out.
How can you say democrats are to blame? Who has the majority in congress? Republicans. If every single democrat voted no on a crappy CR, it would not be enough to matter. The blame sits entirely upon Johnson and his ability to pass his lies about the CR. We are stuck with the least worst choice? Sad
The Republicans aren't trying to shut down gov. They're trying to destroy it little be little, but not shut it down. Dems would be the ones shutting it down to stop the Republicans. But make no mistake, Dems would own the shutdown.
The plan is to keep congress open so they can continue to prevent Trump by having complete power in the even of a shutdown. This is a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenario. It is better to pass the shitty spending bill than to let Trump seize full control of the government.
This isn't really that hard to message. Republicans are in charge. It's THEIR shutdown. If they need votes from Democrats, they need to WORK WITH Democrats. Otherwise, figure it out yourselves!!!
That's not the case. Dems would be soley responsible for filibustering the CR, and therefore not funding the gov. The Republicans would love nothing more.
You want to national narrative to be Democrats are why SS checks are not getting sent out? Because that's what it will be. The Reps would keep the gov shutdown for months knowing the Dems are getting blamed for it. And in the end, the Dems will have to agree to a shit bill anyway.
We should have been shaping the narrative instead of surrendering to it. We don't because of weak, cowardly, stupid leadership. But hey they won Dan over, so they have that
If they can't effectively message against what is happening it doesn't matter that they exist at all. They serve no purpose. Again, you won. America lost. It's over.
I don't accept your framing/premise, but assuming I did, what's your long-term strategy? After Dems agree to the current, shit-bill, what will be different next time??
Answer...Nothing. GOP will force feed them an even worse shit sandwich next time. It's a road to nowhere.
You're brain is buried in Senate procedure - just like too many Dems. Regular voters have ZERO idea how the filibuster works (supermajorities??) Ppl understand that the GOP is in charge AND they want politicians to "work together." but Ds suck at driving that message.
I don't actually agree with that - though I share your outrage. Dems don't agree with what the GOP is doing, but too many of them are terrified to fight back, for fear they'll be "blamed." As a result, they look weak and feckless.
This CR is dangerous. It cedes a lot of the power of the purse to the executive branch. Many of Trump's EOs have been paused or struck down in court because they try to block, funding which they're not allowed to do. If passed, those court cases lose their teeth.
CRs also require presidential approval, so reversing it would be at least 4 years away. I'm not saying I like the idea of a shut down, but I think there's too much at stake with this CR. They need Dem votes, so Dems can and should force some concessions.
But what makes you think the Republican will concede a thing? They'll just let the government stay closed until you meet their demands. They don't care if you kill the hostage.
They do care about their political future. Trump's approval is in the toilet, so aligning with him has little value right now. Shutdowns play worse for the majority party and cause disruption which underscores the value of govt (not negate it). All reasons to play ball, but moot if Ds aren't united.
How many Rs voted against the CR in the house? How many Rs will vote against it in the Senate? Trump is going down, and they will eventually abandon him, if Democrats don't get in the way.
Republicans didn't negotiate at all on this CR, so Democrats should just hand them everything they want, including language allowing Trump to impound spending??
You're not thinking. You're feeling. You're angry and want your pound of flesh. You have to think steps down the road. What are you going to gain, lose, who will be hurt, and what will be the narrative. What makes you think the Reps would be in any rush to restart the gov? Why would they?
The Dems need to find someone with a heartbeat and little charisma to sell a narrative. Dems are fighting a carnival barker with sleepy government-speak talkers. Kamala sounded like she was taking a book report in each interview. Find someone who can talk if you want the media to be managed.
That strategy worked really well the last how ever many times the Dems have done it. It's a good thing the Republicans have never shuttered the government and then turned around afterwards and won the House, Senate, and Presidency.
What we have right now is not Government, it is Dictatorship. A no Cloture vote was the only weapon on our arsenal. We just surrendered that weapon. The CR basically removes Congress from controlling the purse strings.
It keeps the CR from going to the floor for a vote. Johnson sent his members home because he knew Chuck couldn't pull the trigger on a NO CLOTURE vote. If we had voted no on cloture the Repubs would have been forced to call the House back into session for a Bipartisan resolution. This CR is suicide
Well here's your choice Dan. Let the Repubs refuse to compromise and Shut down our government or cede the power of the purse to Trump and Musk and watch them defund whatever they don't like in our government. Do I need to tell you what those programs are?
Republicans have the votes to fund the gov. Tell me what happens when Dems shut down gov. Who does this hurt? Who gains and who loses and why? Tell me the next 3 steps.
Comments
The public is NOT behind the Trump/Musk shitshow, which means that most people would find the Dem position to be completely reasonable.
This CR is a giant shit sandwich and we have no choice but to take a bite, for no doing so will be far worse.
Fixed that for ya. No candidate is owed a vote. You earn 'em. Get it straight, lib.
I remember this when we lived in normal times
Trump breaks the law everyday
When he refuses to obey court order then what?
Schumer give another floor speech
We are over the Rubicon, lead the fight
Not cooperating with the Oligarchs
Primary all democrats.
Trumpmusk would probably fire another 100,000 people.
Lots of people pretend to know the obvious "better path" now.
I'm not convinced they know what they're talking about.
Mostly they just want to place blame and lash out.
Dems need to stop acting like hostages.
Answer...Nothing. GOP will force feed them an even worse shit sandwich next time. It's a road to nowhere.
That is literally what this CR does.