Fantasies inside your own head are morally neutral. Sex between consenting parties is morally neutral. Even and especially the gross, weird, freaky stuff. There is not a moral hierarchy to sexual fantasies.
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As long as it was created by consenting adults, the content of porn is ethically unimportant next to the context around its production and distribution. Vanilla porn is not inherently more moral than fetish porn. What disgusts you is not universal. There's no threshold at which porn becomes "evil."
Porn is art and art should be criticized and taken seriously! There are so many things that can and should be criticized in porn, just like in any genre. Once you let go of the idea that there are concepts that are inherently evil to depict, you open the door to so many more possibilities.
I'm so grateful to live in a world where I could read Samuel Delaney's books. Porn is free speech and free expression. There are a million things I wouldn't write/perform/want myself, but I will fight for everyone else to be able to do them.
Fantasies are play... it's not useful to treat them like a statement of intent or an assertion of moral values. I know it's often easier to say "that's never ok" but like... I'm a disabled person who loves to be degraded for my disability during sex. That doesn't mean I want to hurt disabled people.
I do intense CNC and ageplay! As a top and as a bottom. That's not an endorsement of real-world harms caused by abusive families or a gesture of support for sexual assault. Someone wearing a pup hood doesn't mean they want to fuck real life dogs. It's just not a productive way to approach fantasy!
Tbh It is already a task to feel safe around any white person, regardless of their marginality. But if their fantasy is role playing as a cop or engaging in race play (regardless of the consenting nature of things), that does make me extremely uncomfortable & unsafe in a real life context.
I see what you mean but only to a certain degree. White fantasy breeds real world dangers for me. But again, I haven’t read much on the subject, so I’m just going based off feel and my own experience.
That's incredibly reasonable. And that's why I say that a fantasy is morally neutral... the context around it and how it's expressed is important, obviously. If I saw a cop uniform hanging in a white friend's closet it would likely change my comfort around them even if I knew it was just a sex thing
My point isn't that fantasies are inherently good or that the way that people express their desires can't be damaging. And I do think that if someone's fantasies center around a marginalized group that they don't belong to they have a lot of responsibility to be boundaried and respectful
So, hear me out on this one because I can only speak in anecdotes; I’m in a relatively small kink space that focuses around Nazisploitation (Nazi Kink) and the ONLY raceplay adherents that we have in our group are POC. In fact they have a hard time finding white people who will engage even with—
—a fictional context. Is this something that you run into often where white people are seeking to “justify” or “flaunt” a raceplay kink? Because I am…well, ADJACENT to that (theoretically) and I literally NEVER run into it. It’s EXCEEDINGLY RARE even in spaces it’s ALLOWED.
Truly for discussion, but... if a white man engaging in a power abuse cop fantasy only partakes with someone who consents, and does not behave or speak in any way comparable to an abusive cop outside of sex, is it truly fair to deem that harmful/morally wrong?
And that being said, I think there's a difference between private fantasy vs finding out someone's private fantasy. I probably wouldn't be comfortable around someone who partook in this either, but that isn't the person's fault (unless they intentionally exposed me to their kink), nor is it mine.
Like... no matter how disturbing I may find some kinks to be, if it is enthusiastically consented to and does not influence exterior behaviour in any way, i can't really find fault. At the same time, if finding out someone's kink makes me uncomfy... it's valid to end the relationship imo.
Tldr: I think it's okay to have kinks that make others uncomfy provided you're okay if that ends/alters the relationship with people who find out. Likewise, it's okay to end relationships (of all kinds) with people who make you uncomfy, provided you don't pass moral judgment on them*
I have a bunch of academic pieces I want to read on this stuff lined up, if anyone has any book/article/paper reccomendations on the subject I'd love more suggestions!
This isn't a book recommendation, but I may or may not have written the following manifesto, which actually touches on a lot of the things you are talking about that you might find of interest: https://gutterotica.com
I really do experience that a LOT of people who come down hard on specific fetishes are either A) Farming clout/social capital, or B) Performatively running defense for their own fetish which is usually vore or snuff or something else pretty hard.
The other cases tend to be trauma. Just, very specific trauma that they're externalizing in an attempt to rid their viewable world of it. As someone with PTSD, it's just not a viable plan.
talking to your friends is morally neutral too in a general sense, except the content of what you’re saying can change that pretty drastically. tbh i do think some things are morally wrong even between consenting adults, like people who fetishize Nazis
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