I honestly don't really agree with the whole "it's just fiction" thing since I believe it can very well show tendencies in real life too, if someone is attracted to underage fictional characters you can't categorically negate they won't be to underage people in real life - ThreadSky

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social • 91 days ago

I honestly don't really agree with the whole "it's just fiction" thing since I believe it can very well show tendencies in real life too, if someone is attracted to underage fictional characters you can't categorically negate they won't be to underage people in real life

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harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•91 days ago

Still, I get what you mean and although I don't agree with the latter part of the argument, I see the value in the former and it's definitely something to consider I believe

daizz.bsky.social•91 days ago

This line of thinking isn't really any different from "playing violent video games makes you violent". Someone with real life violent tendencies may also enjoy violent video games but this does not automatically make the opposite true and the same applies with anything else fictional.

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•91 days ago

Yes, it's something I've thought about too and I agree. Just to clarify, I'm not talking about banning - I agree banning isn't the answer and can lead to dangerous places. I was referring more to condemning socially (and morally) such depictions

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•91 days ago

Meaning, while me and most people accept the argument about violent media, why is it still so hard to do the same with R18 depictions of minors? I can't help but to condemn is categorically, and separating both is what I'm trying to see how I could reconcile with despite these feelings.

noradb.bsky.social•90 days ago

I imagine that it all comes down to a difference in worldview. Your mind elevates things like canon age in ways that mine simply doesn't. Our perceptions of fiction are simply different.

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•90 days ago

Maybe that's what it comes down to ultimately, plus different lived experiences

nanashi774.bsky.social•90 days ago

It’s a complex topic and our own boundaries with how we see a fictional character or situation can be totally different from someone else’s. Like I don’t relate that much to teen characters anymore at 30 doesn’t mean my lack of interest in shipping them means someone else my age cannot enjoy it.

kusateri.bsky.social•90 days ago

I’m on the other side of this axis; due to my cultural and societal background l find such depictions relatable and identify with the (underage) subject often
What does this say about me? It’s a curious question ahaha

daizz.bsky.social•91 days ago

There is a very real slippery slope to banning from social and moral condemnation. The most that society at large should do is ensure that presence is limited to appropriate places (ie. adult content should stick to adult spaces - on social media, that'd include accounts labeled as adults only)

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•91 days ago

Yes I agree, and I appreciate for many people both wouldn't be clear cut and both would go hand in hand easily. That is why I appreciate these conversations, without them I think me and most people won't be able to reconcile our feelings about this since it's not an easy topic to deal with

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•91 days ago

So I appreciate your sincerity and understanding, and I hope it didn't come across as me negating your feelings or views on this. It's definitely something I still need to ponder about quite a bit, and without exchanging different points of view it'd be difficult.

daizz.bsky.social•91 days ago

It's understandable how one could feel conflicted about it. Just remember that at the end of the day, the thing that truly matters in terms of being a good person is how you treat other real people. Not what media you consume.

crazydane666.bsky.social•90 days ago

Favorite game I like to play with a thought process is Why is this somehow morally bad? Morals cannot be built on personal icks and distaste. Fictional interests have no fundamental moral implications because morals and social norms should be based on minimizing harm, not disgust

crazydane666.bsky.social•90 days ago

There's no inherent moral difference between someone who writes a story about animal fighting (abuse, death, violence) and someone who writes about CSA. You can't tell anything based on that. You'd have to look at their actions and behavior outside of it, and then it's not about the fiction anymore

mikchan.dev•91 days ago

And what social consequence do you aim to achieve with this condemnation? How would marginalizing people for liking fictional content serve any good to society?

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•91 days ago

The only thing I'm trying to achieve with this conversation is to understand what someone with a different opinion and views from mine thinks. Otherwise I won't be able to actually have an informed opinion about the matter.

mikchan.dev•91 days ago

That's why I asked these questions. If we take a group of perfectly functional members of society - most of whom have never committed any crimes or harmed anyone - and marginalize them based on their preferences in fiction, what do you think it would achieve? What do you think would happen?

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•91 days ago

I obviously don't want marginalised groups to suffer, and hence why I'm having these conversations. Because I don't have the answers yet (and I don't think I will for a while) and I'm still organising my thoughts and feelings about the matter.

lunadragofelis.bsky.social•90 days ago

Someone might feel sexual attraction to minors or animals, but still be aware of the legal and ethical issues and refrain from acting out their attraction in real life.

kougeru.bsky.social•89 days ago

You can't "negate" that any person will do anything, in any circumstance. You're making baseless assumptions. The reality is that we're still talking about fiction and every study done on the topic (and violent video games) and shown no evidence to support that they lead to real people being harmed

nekorug.moe•91 days ago

people can show those tendencies with and without engaging in it. you cannot reliably spot an abuser based on aesthetics, interests, etc. you have to judge people on how they act towards others, not what cartoon porn they like.

fugumichi.bsky.social•90 days ago

This is honestly such dangerous mindset to have. Because this is how you get actual child predator & abuser get scott free or unnoticed bcus they rarely like those "problematic cartoon teen porn".
You really can't judge people moral value based on their fictional taste.

fugumichi.bsky.social•90 days ago

There's so many case of ppl who only like wholesome fictional taste but turn out to be vile person IRL & ppl who like transgressive/ icky kink tend to be chill ppl.
I've met many ppl who like deranged anime teen/lolishota porn most of 'em hate dealing w/ irl kids

fugumichi.bsky.social•90 days ago

Look you're allowed to feel uncomfortable w/ such content but don't try to conflate their taste to moral value, this is smth you need to unlearn bcus at first it might just"only apply to anime minor" But then unconsciously u go for ppl who likes questionable/controversial media

fugumichi.bsky.social•90 days ago

And then u might go "hays code & censorship arent bad actually esp to ppl who likes icky things" W/o u realizing it.
I've seen so manh similar playbook & ppl ended up to similar rabbit hole that they end up agreeing w/ any form of censorship as long it's content they hate

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•90 days ago

I'm aware of this and that's exactly why I'm asking these questions and trying to have these conversations. It's the kind of content I think I'll never stop feeling disgust about and therefore avoid engaging with, but when it comes to morals your own upbringing, societal and individual -

harucchi3boshi.bsky.social•90 days ago

- experiences make them so deeply engraved in your own values that it's not easy to challenge those conceptions if you don't discuss the matter with people who clearly don't feel the same
Many people don't seem to understand this unfortunately

nagaina.bsky.social•90 days ago

You literally cannot draw any such inference with anything like accuracy. Nubohiro Watsuki was arrested in possession of so much CSEM that the police thought he was distributing it but *Rurouni Kenshin* contained absolutely nothing that might indicate he's a pedophile.

trolljegus.bsky.social•91 days ago

So please do tell what you think of the multitude of people who have actually raped children and animals while drawing only the squeakiest cleanest of art to your personal tastes , hell a lot of them aren’t artists at all. Please do enlighten me on how any of that makes sense.

faewren.bsky.social•90 days ago

So, just so you know, this is misinformation about paraphilias and how they work, which is really dangerous for society and for real children

Actual pedophiles are born with the disorder, it manifests during puberty and is distinguishable by a sole and complete attraction to living children

faewren.bsky.social•90 days ago

Now, pedophiles aren’t the only ones who abuse children. Most do it for power/ego/money. These people also aren’t attracted to fictional depictions and find them irrelevant to what they want to accomplish

sleepysack.bsky.social•87 days ago

OH MY GOD THIS. THANK YOU!!

Also in a lot of cases, people who sexually abuse minors don't even have a paraphilia nor any kind of attraction to the minors or their bodily traits. A lot of time they just prefer minors because they're "easier" and more impressionable. Plus when you take into -

sleepysack.bsky.social•87 days ago

consideration that the being underage extends to people who are highschool and college age, and a lot of predators won't really consider a 16-17yo as someone who can't consent (assuming they even care about consent in the first place)

faewren.bsky.social•90 days ago

The thousands of studies done across the world over decades on this exact topic have categorically proven that there’s no link between fictional consumption of taboo materials and crimes/real life actions

faewren.bsky.social•90 days ago

In fact, the opposite is true. Taboo fantasies can be healthy coping mechanisms, artistic expression is suggested during therapy, and repression of these thoughts can actually lead to disorders such as obsessive compulsive disorders

faewren.bsky.social•90 days ago

I ask that before you speak definitively on this topic, you research the science and psychology behind it. You don’t have to like or be comfortable with the existence of certain fiction. In fact, it can disgust you and you can judge those who make it

faewren.bsky.social•90 days ago

But morally and socially punishing them for it is harassment, can be censorship, and can be extremely detrimental to society and the children we need to protect

simonjadis.bsky.social•90 days ago

enjoying art does not have a victim. whether the art is an action movie or a smutty comic, people can and do enjoy stories about wrongdoings without committing wrongdoings. someone bad enjoying a piece of art does not contaminate the art or other enjoyers; that is, as always, on the wrongdoer

mikchan.dev•91 days ago

Serial killers might also enjoy violent video games too because, you know, they enjoy murdering people. That doesn't mean that we need to ban these games outright and that banning them would decrease the number of serial killers by any means. I thought this discussion was over many years ago.

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