Moreover, this whole discourse ignores that the UK public, in accordance with the UK's constitutional arrangements, voted for Brexit in 2015(x2), 16, 17 and 19 (x2) So what's the working out of this conspiracy? Of course, it's up to Europe to anull this, and if it doesn't, it's Europe's fault 10 - ThreadSky

nialloconghaile.bsky.social • 22 days ago

Moreover, this whole discourse ignores that the UK public, in accordance with the UK's constitutional arrangements, voted for Brexit in 2015(x2), 16, 17 and 19 (x2)

So what's the working out of this conspiracy?

Of course, it's up to Europe to anull this, and if it doesn't, it's Europe's fault

10

Comments

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

We're probably all familiar with how public trauma can lead to conspiracy theories. It is a way of coping. This can't have happened the way it seems to have happened.

Unquestionably, Brexit is a trauma for the UK, and specifically for remainers

11

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

(although the widespread cognitive dissonance on the other side is noteworthy and potentially damaging. One to watch)

12

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

The television programme The Good Fight satirises how liberals (ie, a lot of us on here reading this) are also susceptible to conspiracy theories too, not just the far-right and far-left crazies.

13

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

However, our side, the pro-European side, is the side of the rational Enlightenment.

We shouldn't allow conspiracy theories become part of the popular discourse, and you especially need to shut down fantasies about visa waivers or a magic pill to get rid of Brexit.

14

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

Thanks for reading. And have a great Sunday. Please do share 🔝🔝🔝 to help get a bit of traction on Bsky.

I'm going to play a bit of Fifa with the kids. ⚽ Forza Europa!

Ends

markpurch.bsky.social•22 days ago

It’s perfectly ok for people to have these beliefs, but if they are also trying to portray themselves as pro europe they shouldn’t also pin some of the blame on Europe for allowing it to happen, just as you can’t claim the EU illegally removed your citizenship and refuse to accept the ruling of 1/

andrewhj.bsky.social•22 days ago

The only thing to say about the UK’s decision to leave the EU is it was Parliament’s decision (per Miller). Parliament voted for PM May to deliver the Article 50 notice. She did, but she (and, to some extent, Parliament) still pretended in her letter that the decision was the referendum result.

rolandmcs.bsky.social•22 days ago

Thanks for pointing out Jon Danzig's presence here. A bit of a dick. Now blocked – turns out he was following me.

mat70x.bsky.social•22 days ago

There is a magic pill to get rid of Brexit...... but it's not red and it's certainly not blue........ it's orange (but not the American version of orange) - but getting people to take it seems to be impossible! 🙄

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

It's the obvious step to take.

kathylove.bsky.social•22 days ago

Asking ‘whose fault it was’ won’t change anything. The process was governed by the U.K. political system and courts and cannot be annulled or reversed now. There may be good reasons for a thorough re-examination of the U.K. internal systems but for the rest of the world Brexit is a fait accompli.

misterdac.bsky.social•22 days ago

I do not completely agree.

Just consider Brexit as it is: a crime against the four nations, and a treason to the enemy.

Shouldn’t all the influent people that supported such a crime and treason (mainly politicians and journalists) be held accountable for doing what they have done ?

tamarainportugal.bsky.social•22 days ago

I do wonder when endless raking over 2016 will finally give way to forward thinking...
There will have to be an honest debate about Brexit led by politicians to the public to enable this.

timewalkproject.bsky.social•22 days ago

The main problem is that majority of people don't learn critical thinking, no matter which political persuasion they come from. Many vote according to family tradition not after considering political manifestos.

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

There's a lot of truth to what you say.

souptomatosoup.uk•22 days ago

Its embarrassing to admit, though shouldn't be.

I dedicated my life and career to public service, to making the UK better, and an influence for good in the world.

The brexit vote, and what followed significantly contributed to destroying that passion and my ability to cope with my depression.

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

Indeed, it was a trauma. People underestimate that; Brexiters relished that.

souptomatosoup.uk•22 days ago

It's not irrational to care emotionally about the political direction of your country, and to be hurt when its going a bad direction.

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

Not at all. It's also not irrational to be personally injured by what Brexit did to your identity or life.

cynic65.bsky.social•22 days ago

By this guy's logic, the UK never joined the EEC in the first place!

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

Indeed. It makes no sense.

lizzieab.bsky.social•22 days ago

There was no conspiracy but there was a lot of confusion. The referendum result didn't mandate Brexit but called the bluff of Cameron's political promise. Govt thought it had prerogative to decide but as Brexit would remove citizens' rights granted by parliament, parliament's consent was required. 1

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

Good response.

I agree, cockup is more accurate.

However, relitivatjng this doesn't help joining. Indeed, it damages it.

lizzieab.bsky.social•22 days ago

I agree but I think desire is for honesty from government, including acknowledgement of reality, a sort of truth and reconciliation phase. It is necessary to enable everyone to move on. Then we need more public awareness of what the EU is and is not so informed, committed decisions can be made.

musicienne.bsky.social•22 days ago

Totally agree, Elizabeth. The whole thing was handled very badly. And we now know that the Tories had no plan for life after Brexit. And there was no discussion after the vote about the SM/EU as I recall.

lizzieab.bsky.social•22 days ago

Passing the short bill wasn't a vote to do Brexit but it gave the government through May the power to decide and act. There are claims some MPs thought they had no choice because it was merely a legal technicality and that others expected to see plans & debate the details before A50 was triggered. 2

lizzieab.bsky.social•22 days ago

Added to this is the acknowledgement that due to irregularities the referendum had, it actually been binding, would have been nullified. There is justification for grievance about how the process was handled. Requests for safeguards were expressly rejected because it was only advisory. 3

misterdac.bsky.social•21 days ago

So, as it’s been managed, wasn’t it a crime?

lizzieab.bsky.social•21 days ago

The law was broken and fines issued.

misterdac.bsky.social•21 days ago

But not for Brexit considered in itself as a crime.

lizzieab.bsky.social•22 days ago

As is usually the case cockup/incompetence is probably a better explanation than conspiracy especially as it seems the government was prepared to act blind & was to a large extent ignorant (wilfully?) of what they were actually dealing with, particularly the rule based nature of the Single Market. 4

misterdac.bsky.social•21 days ago

Incompetence, or criminal decisions? Isn’t it what politicians and journalists would like us to believe today ?

lizzieab.bsky.social•21 days ago

Incompetence and gross negligence. Malfeasance in public office maybe, but in case of elected politicians lying its difficult to prove. Someone tried it against Johnson once although not directly to do with Brexit.

souptomatosoup.uk•22 days ago

In my experience of working with many different governments, hanlons razor applies 99 times out of 100, even the malicious actors are ignorant...its often a defining trait

vivmarsh.bsky.social•22 days ago

There is absolutely no excuse for any government ignorance of the SM. In the case of extreme stupidity among ministers, civil servants would have advised. If the government chose to ignore that advice, its actions would have to be deemed intentional.

lizzieab.bsky.social•22 days ago

Absolutely no excuse. There are claims that the guidance given was misunderstood but whether true or not it certainly fell on ears primed to hear all inconvenient advice as an attempt by elite vested interests, citizens of nowhere with no faith in their country, to block the "will of the people".

lizzieab.bsky.social•22 days ago

In 2019 GE there were more votes for parties advocating another ref or to revoke A50 than for "Get Brexit Done" parties but under FPTP this counted for nothing as the largest single block of votes, even though a minority, was for Brexit. So we ended up with Johnson & his lies about his deal. 5

misterdac.bsky.social•21 days ago

Hasn’t BoJo conscientiously lied? And again ?

lizzieab.bsky.social•22 days ago

Current UK govt shows similar weakness of leadership to that which led to the referendum & Brexit. It may not blatantly lie but it's still not willing to engage in an honest debate about EU, immigration, asylum, even trade & with far right advancing & spectre of Trump the stakes are now much higher.

kresten2.bsky.social•21 days ago

And in the GE 2024 70%+ of the votes went for hard Brexit parties.

Difficult for the EU to see any viable partner within the UK.

katebyrne.bsky.social•21 days ago

So there you have it. People voted for Brexit, or not; or not Corbyn or something else altogether.

katebyrne.bsky.social•22 days ago

Not 2017. I’ve just read Rory Stewart’s book ‘Politics on the Edge’. He campaigned in the election and noted ‘There was no support for Theresa May’s Brexit deal’. The main issue that arose during the election was the ‘Dementia tax’. That’s why she lost her majority. One could argue too about 2015,

katebyrne.bsky.social•22 days ago

… whether England just returned to its old voting habits. It’s hard to remember, in 2015 the commentary was dominated by something else north of the border.

mermaidspursej.bsky.social•22 days ago

Which brings us to who is actually to blame. David Cameron and Theresa May presided over the governments that brought Brexit about and made individual decisions themselves to place matters before Parliament they should not have done.

They don't agree with this, however.

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

They were elected with the promise of "Brexit".

mermaidspursej.bsky.social•22 days ago

You know that I disagree with you when you say General Elections were about Brexit. They weren't.

David Cameron was elected because Labour refused coalition with the Lib Dems. There were some awful statements about Lib Dems from senior Labour politicians released to the press about the LDs.

botrange694.bsky.social•22 days ago

I tend to agree with Niall: if voters don't take certain issues serious enough (like Brexit) it's their choice.

Some people ignore the big issues and say " well I voted for Mr. Y because he promised a new train station for my town I don't care what party or other policies he represents".

misterdac.bsky.social•22 days ago

Yep. The GE wasn’t about Brexit, but none of the main parties supported undoing Brexit, and they got a huge majority together.

So they got Brexit done.

It only proves that Brexit was not a top priority.

Brexit is still not a top priority

mermaidspursej.bsky.social•22 days ago

Examples including Labour voters in 2019 wanting to put the knife into Corbyn and dispatch him once and for all. The Tories this time around being kicked for making their voters in the South and the Shires poor. Labour in government trying to bring about the extinction of the Tories by pushing right

mermaidspursej.bsky.social•22 days ago

He was then rejected as people became disillusioned with the LDs after George Osborne sabotaged their projects.

mrsvsmegma.bsky.social•22 days ago

2017 and 2019 were imho. 2010 was labour being blamed for the 2008 financial crash, people not warming to Brown (despite him actually being a reasonable politician) and a carry over of Blair’s crusading in Iraq

katebyrne.bsky.social•22 days ago

No they weren’t. In 2015 the word hadn’t been invented and in 2017 the negotiations had started but it was a background issue. If it had been the lead issue you would have expected May to have strengthened her majority as predicted instead of losing it.

nialloconghaile.bsky.social•22 days ago

They literally elected the Tories in 2015 with the promise of a Brexit referendum.

2017 delivered a Brexit government too

mermaidspursej.bsky.social•22 days ago

The "death tax" thing was huge at the time. The trouble is that May had cultivated a reputation for being hard and uncaring while she was in the Home Office and so ppl were likely to remember it in the polling booth.

andyinafield.bsky.social•22 days ago

Brexit was a huge factor in the 2017 election. My view, from campaigning, is that the surge in labour support was due to the 48% hoping for some kind of representation.

Of course, corbyn and his momentum attack dogs thought it was all about dear leader.

Hence 2019's rout.

andyinafield.bsky.social•22 days ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37896977

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