Nathalie Tocci and I had a lively exchange of views on what Europe can/will/should do for Ukraine now that the US is disengaging. Check it out here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/56GkqDBzcjwG6OW84NysuV?si=G1IUjs3fTbyxty_LKKOuJA&nd=1&dlsi=2462074d22024fc3
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