But this is a hard battle that will cost much, both in money and in its impact on educational integrity. And it’s designed to scare others into not standing up to this. Now is the time to stop these attacks on our institutions. On all of us.
Stephen Miller is behind this, and the evil Republicans enable him to get away with it. Republicans are so glad they did all that gerrymandering to remain in office.
Hmm.
Well I see the Harvard Lawyers filing ANOTHER lawsuit.
Someone really needs to add up how much taxpayer money is being spent defending that f'ing moron's fascist orders.
He's had a lifelong grudge against establishment old school patrician types that have always seen him as a vulgar immigrant grifter from Queens.
Trump: I'm rich! Accept me!
Old Money: We're far richer. So rich we don't have to constantly remind everyone.
Trump: I'm on Page 6🤷♂️
Old Money: * shudder *
Because “Harvard” in the abstract represents the mortal enemy of the Trump base.
The red-hatted rubes who are pissed they shovel shit or dig ditches for a living. Harvard is rich folks. White collar. The “liberal elites”
imho, having been around some of the tech elite, never discount their own personal failings or vendettas being the entire reason vs. a grand plan. I think this is the cherry on top, but like with most things whenever Trump manages to sustain attention, it’s a vendetta for some personal reason.
Their goal is to control everything. Higher education is one of the few institutions left that they can only influence—but not fully control. And yes, of course it is revenge against these institutions for being places where the set of American values they want to completely kill still flourish.
Harvard must move, lock stock and barrel. Canada would be more convenient but is, maybe, too vulnerable. France, which had to have a government in exile during the fascist occupation, would be a poetic option?
Harvard has BILLIONS in endowments. It's law school trains all the top lawyers in the country. FIGHT BACK! Show us what elite institution is all about. Thugs in the WH will be lawless. They are throwing ketchup at the wall to see what sticks.
Trump Admin
- wants to bring back factory jobs (require less education)
- seeks to gut and control education opportunities for Americans
- eliminating many, many jobs which require degrees
- so where will educated professionals come from? -> increases need to import foreign workers (ex: tech)
If Trump Admin eliminates education
- removes a pathway for many Americans to better paying jobs (and upwards mobility)
So what do we have left?
- most people's employment prospects now geared towards factory level
- reduced/gutted middle class of professionals
- the people already at the top
Apart from creating industrial feudal serfdom, I guess political scientists could already identify countries with that occupational landscape. Yes, it's fascist, but I'm thinking more along the lines of employment prospects.
It might help Americans to have concrete examples of where we're heading.
For reasons, Donald Trump is using every lever of power he can find to destroy the flagship university of the nation he purports to lead. Impossible to imagine, say, the British prime minister trying to kill Oxford, but Trump believes in literally nothing, so why not?
Harvard and other universities should limit their access to PhD students from citizens of other countries tries that are not the USA for a multitude of reasons. There are other ways of diplomacy and international exchange in the education sector.
Quite frankly it’s ridiculous when we have USA students applying multiple cycles to publicly funded universities where non U.S. students take very limited spots.
Morals. it’s now time to take a break from certain initiatives. I believe we would be doing US citizens just by pushing universities to focus on study abroad exchanges and those networks. Universities should leave the full time spots for U.S citizens who then enter in majority the U.S. job market.
- Harvard can’t give in — If they do, the punishment will only increase as they will be made an example of — The only path forward is to fight towards victory…
That's true. When we look at the details of the shameful agreement that Columbia accepted, we can see what would be in store for Harvard & others if they agree: departments on Trump thought. Colombia is supposed to have all types of guarantees for "diversity of opinion", which means MAGAts.
My husband is in higher ed and knows a lot about higher ed law (although he's not a lawyer), and he says this is clearly illegal and that Harvard would win in court. But in the meantime, so many individual students will have their lives potentially turned upside down.
It is completely illegal, and they will win in court. But the damage will be done by then. And as you pointed out, Trump will probably just retaliate like a petty bitch by rounding up intl students as they step off the plane and ship em off to CECOT.
He might know a lot about higher ed In normal times. But does he know about higher ed under the system of an authoritarian & spineless Congress & SCOTUS? Would SCOTUS do its constitutional duty, or would it obey DDT? If he decides to practice non-acquescence & simply ignore any undavorable ruling?
Sad but true. But our tax dollars already being paid as salaries for the incompetents in the administration, propaganda bullshit from OAN to go out on VOA, et., not to mention $5M to the family of that dead insurrectionist.
meanwhile..in the NYT right now-the paper is blaming South Africa's president for failing to improve relations with the U.S., and Trump's virulent racism is framed as a "vivid distillation of his views on race."
NYT is full Vichy--24/7
You have almost zero reading skills. The NYT said nothing of the sort.
"But Trump and his aides had prepared an extraordinary ambush. In front of the television cameras, the president dimmed the lights and played a video that he cited as evidence of racial persecution of white South Africans."
"Trump’s claims were false. Police statistics do not show that white South Africans are any more vulnerable to violent crime than others in the country."
The NYT's coverage of the meeting was sharply. Critical of DDT. You are simply lying.
Calling his racism "a vivid distillation of his views on race" is absolutely correct, and the NYT explicitly showed that he has a decades-long history of racist attacks and baiting.
Thank you. I am deeply opposed to DDT as well as other extremist groups around the world. The right-wing populist ones are the most dangerous now. The New York Times is by no means perfect. But in general, its coverage of the meeting with South Africa was good.
I mean, some of them are definitely putting in a significant effort, but an all out martyr effort would maybe still have no effect. There aren't many dems.
The ones resisting are allowed to resist because they don't have any ability to do anything. Senior leadership are all lockstep, so the new kids are free to "oppose".
Don't know if this will affect next week's graduation. It will be a shame if the foreign students and their families can't attend. Many families are here in the Boston area already.
Well, the order is effective today. If I remember correctly, if your student visa is expired, you have 60 days or so to leave or transfer. So next week graduation won’t be affected. But I hope Harvard strike back instead of compromise.
Does this actually mean that (if this stands) every new and continuing foreign undergraduate and grad student at Harvard can’t enroll for the Fall semester?
in article: 'In a news release, the Department of Homeland Security sent a stark message to Harvard’s international students: “This means Harvard can no longer enroll foreign students, and existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status.”'
but, eventually court *should* kill it...
Yes. That's what it means. And I would predict that the next White House move will be made very soon and it will be to deny visas to people who work for Harvard, faculty and staff.
At least two things are necessary. Harvard needs to get a court stay. And DDT needs to follow that. I keep waiting for when he is going to start to practice non-acquiescence, the open refusal of the executive to follow Court rulings. Lincoln did this occasionally during the civil War. DDT wants to.
Why aren't Americans simply ignoring the White House's illegal proclamations?
Aren't orders from the federal government obeyed because they have the weight of law behind them? Haven't these past few months' EOs been just weightless, ineligible mutterings?
They've already sold out their principles in order to bow down in the orange cult. They will continue doing the same. DDT has made 2.9 billion through his crypto fraud the past 6 months. He can sprinkle that like a poisonous fairy & Harvard grads in Congress will decide that's where the money is.
Many small liberal arts colleges rely on international students to keep the college solvent. My Alma mater, Coe College, has a 10% international student population. Those students pay cash for the full tuition of $71,000 a year. That's 143 students.
27% of Harvard's students are international with visas. Harvard is probably not as dependent on them financially as Coe is on its students, but it's a massive fraction of Harvard students. And very likely this would extend to Harvard staff and faculty.
Very true. I remember being surprised that Iowa went for Obama twice and was hoping that was a harbinger of good things for the future. But I have since been very disappointed.
While it’s likely unenforceable this “order” works to freeze the market. An international student is likely to go elsewhere because of the uncertainty and the clear message that they are not wanted. It’s a travesty and a tragedy.
I do not see how it is unenforceable. The federal government is in charge of the granting of visas. Perhaps this decision by the White House will be overturned, but for a thoroughly corrupted narcissistic president, this executive power is certainly in his hands given pliant Congress and SCOTUS.
I think Harvard's lawsuit, seeking both preliminary and permanent injunctive relief spells out why the administration's actions are illegal and unenforceable.
Illegal is a question about what ought to be. Enforceable or unforceable is about what can actually be done. And in a well-run system, what is corresponds fairly closely to what should be. We are not in a well-run or normal system. In terms of sheer power, the executive definitely has the ability
Comments
“He has a world that he keeps creating for himself, and anybody who interferes with it is a danger to him. He sees the person as a terrible threat.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-bitter-personal-feud-with-pritzker-family-is-behind-his-harvard-hate-campaign/
Well I see the Harvard Lawyers filing ANOTHER lawsuit.
Someone really needs to add up how much taxpayer money is being spent defending that f'ing moron's fascist orders.
Trump: I'm rich! Accept me!
Old Money: We're far richer. So rich we don't have to constantly remind everyone.
Trump: I'm on Page 6🤷♂️
Old Money: * shudder *
He also has a bunch of assholes in his orbit who did go there, were hated by their peers because of being assholes, and still have an axe to grind.
The red-hatted rubes who are pissed they shovel shit or dig ditches for a living. Harvard is rich folks. White collar. The “liberal elites”
International students aside, the Admin is radically changing the occupational landscape and opportunities
- wants to bring back factory jobs (require less education)
- seeks to gut and control education opportunities for Americans
- eliminating many, many jobs which require degrees
- so where will educated professionals come from? -> increases need to import foreign workers (ex: tech)
- removes a pathway for many Americans to better paying jobs (and upwards mobility)
So what do we have left?
- most people's employment prospects now geared towards factory level
- reduced/gutted middle class of professionals
- the people already at the top
It might help Americans to have concrete examples of where we're heading.
I have no idea what Trump is thinking……
Because I would think the answer is NO but recent events suggest otherwise. Which is baffling to me.
Can they get a TRO?
DOJ tha
NYT is full Vichy--24/7
"But Trump and his aides had prepared an extraordinary ambush. In front of the television cameras, the president dimmed the lights and played a video that he cited as evidence of racial persecution of white South Africans."
The NYT's coverage of the meeting was sharply. Critical of DDT. You are simply lying.
May as well just start burning books while he is at it.
That’s in the Big BS Bill-and it’s retroactive.
but, eventually court *should* kill it...
And future international students will stop coming here because of this mess.
#ETTD
influencing his Retribution Tour.
Lord give me strength.
Aren't orders from the federal government obeyed because they have the weight of law behind them? Haven't these past few months' EOs been just weightless, ineligible mutterings?
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-story-behind-jared-kushners-curious-acceptance-into-harvard
Tom Cotton (Arkansas).
Mike Crapo (Idaho).
Ted Cruz (Texas).
House:
Elise Stefanik
Dan Crenshaw
Brian Mast
John Moolenaar
Maria Salazar
Van Taylor