Fascism first arose as a responce to large scale, Marxist worker organising. Refusal to understand the potenency of that organising - and why the owning class feared it so much - makes it impossible understand fascism. Liberal screeches of 'get rid of the bad man' will achieve nothing - ThreadSky

feralcommie.bsky.social • 13 days ago

Fascism first arose as a responce to large scale, Marxist worker organising. Refusal to understand the potenency of that organising - and why the owning class feared it so much - makes it impossible understand fascism. Liberal screeches of 'get rid of the bad man' will achieve nothing

Comments

truth-is-freedom.bsky.social•13 days ago

fascism was around long before marx was even born.

paulwalker44.bsky.social•13 days ago

Hmm. Marx was born in 1818, fascism became a thing under Italians around 1914. Went viral in pre 1920’s WW2.

So idk. I’d need to see a citation.

truth-is-freedom.bsky.social•13 days ago

the greeks wrote about it.

the romans wrote about it.

voltaire wrote about it.

it has been a thing for a very long time.

"At the core of fascism is loyalty to tribe, ethnic identity, religion, tradition, or, in a word, nation."
—Jason Stanley, PhD.

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

So your entire definition of fascism basically means tyranny or greek despotism? In other words, nasty man with big stick? Yes, history has a lot of those but you are utterly erasing the word from historical context.

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

Fascism is very like colonialism - in that it practises a combination of authoritarianism and (often racial) violence against people for resources. What made it unique is that in the colonial age this was only supposed to be done to foreign natives, not Europeans.

truth-is-freedom.bsky.social•13 days ago

it absolutely was being done to europeans. ask the irish. ask the russians.

thedogfather6.bsky.social•13 days ago

Trump is checking the boxes in moving our country from a democracy to an autocracy.
Don't believe me? Take a look.
https://musingsofanobodyweb.wordpress.com/2025/05/10/an-authoritarian-checklist/

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

It only came home to europe in the 1920's and 1930's when capitalism was in free-fall and organised labour - as well as the Soviet Union - were threatening capitalism very existence. At this point European colonial violence turned in on itself....

thefinanceleftist.bsky.social•13 days ago

I would make a case that feudalism is a form of fascism under a different name.

truth-is-freedom.bsky.social•13 days ago

bingo! we have a winner!

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

Meaningless comment to historians and political scientists. Words have to mean something to be able to have a conversation

truth-is-freedom.bsky.social•13 days ago

i am a political scientist. i have fancy diploma and everything

nkvdicepick.bsky.social•13 days ago

Yet, you are sprouting s#it here. Throw away your diploma in the sewer.

b3anz1e.bsky.social•13 days ago

your fancy diploma should be revoked then because you've clearly learned nothing.

truth-is-freedom.bsky.social•13 days ago

huh.

how about this guy?:

"At the core of fascism is loyalty to tribe, ethnic identity, religion, tradition, or, in a word, nation."
—Jason Stanley, PhD

or this one?:

Take away colonialism and you still have … Balkan fascism …
—Umberto Eco

did they learn nothing?

b3anz1e.bsky.social•13 days ago

neither of these quotes support your argument.

joeahargrave.bsky.social•13 days ago

So do I. And I think it is absurd to talk about fascism outside of the context of anti-socialism and anti-communism.

“everything bad is fascism” is not serious political analysis

truth-is-freedom.bsky.social•13 days ago

"At the core of fascism is loyalty to tribe, ethnic identity, religion, tradition, or, in a word, nation."
—Jason Stanley, PhD

joeahargrave.bsky.social•13 days ago

One quotation devoid of context or analysis sure settles things.

wertheresistance.bsky.social•13 days ago

Which #fascist movements can you point to pre #Marx and pre #Bismarck / certainly their were nasty #monarchy (ies) and #imperialism

truth-is-freedom.bsky.social•13 days ago

"Take away colonialism and you still have … Balkan fascism …"
—Umberto Eco

wpichickenhawk.bsky.social•13 days ago

🏆

johnatron.bsky.social•13 days ago

Anyone who cannot see the direct link between the rise of Trumpism and the Occupy Wallstreet movement, is blind.

We are living in the capitalist response to the threat of worker organization.

durruticalm.bsky.social•13 days ago

I see the intense bipartisan escalation in police militarization, copaganda, and material support (like Cop City) as a response to BLM and land/water defense movements.

Our rulers want to ensure they never have to even see a protest again, let alone suppress one. And they have been planning for it

yellowagent007.bsky.social•13 days ago

I agree with everything except the last sentence.

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

How will blaming everything on Trump lead to anything other than a new Dem being elected who continues the deportations, genocides, hyper-capitalism, cop cities and general slide into fascism? History shows this as a well established pattern. Everyone will just go back to sleep who Orange Man Gone.

yellowagent007.bsky.social•13 days ago

Even pre-Trump establishment is better than the current direction. Any defenders of Trump are just people sinking into fascism. People denying this do not see the reality.

paddymendez.bsky.social•13 days ago

Trump is the product - this is their "jump to safety" - earlier administrations were building up ICE and DHS and giving credence to the same illiberal propaganda - undermining rights to protest - allowing wealth to concentrate ever further - this is them doing away with the pretence of democracy.

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

Marxists believe that economic and social conditions drive political developments. Trumpism - like UK brexitism and all other western alt right movements - are driven by 40 years of neoliberalism wearing away at the foundations of society. The Dems build future fascism, they don't avert it

yellowagent007.bsky.social•13 days ago

Yes surely. Before the ww2 some Marxists supported Nazis, because their rule was seen as the final stage of capitalism. I would never side with those Marxists.

But I agree that when the means of production change, it will change the society. The next time will be the AI revolution.

paulwalker44.bsky.social•13 days ago

This is debunked 80 year old Nazi propoganda.

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

My whole degree focussed on 20th century history and i've never come across Marxists who supported Nazis. Possibly some misguided fools who called themselves Marxist, but you're talking about people being entirely the wrong side of a battle aimed directly at them and their kind.

013-727.bsky.social•13 days ago

Trump was only able to come to power at all because of the establishment that 1) preceded him and 2) he, as an oligarch, was a part of anyway. Even disregarding that life in pre-Trump America was still dogshit anyway, reinstating the conditions to create more Trumps is a horrible goal.

jasminevp.bsky.social•13 days ago

I find your argument unconvincing and hard to understand. What is the present equivalent of this organizing in the 1920s and 30s that led to MAGA? Since this organizing was also present in the US, why didn’t fascism happen here? Was Jim Crow our fascism? What should we do if your theory is right?

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

It's a historical argument about the 1920's-30's that is not controversial among historians. It doesn't apply literally to today because Marxism is a much smaller force. However, 2008 financial crisis being followed by a resurgence of populist leftist calls against billionaires has made capitalism..

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

...feel very threatened. The pattern is that Capitalism in crisis damages the legitimacy of the system as living standards fall. This leads to worker solidarity and anti-wealth sentiments which encourage a tough capitalist / ruling class reaction aimed at keeping control.

jasminevp.bsky.social•13 days ago

This description seems to leave out the fact that the majority of the working-class non-college-educated electorate voted for Trump, and that the leftist, anti-capitalist working class movement was tiny and posed no real threat to capitalism or to the continuing power of the two-party duopoly.

jasminevp.bsky.social•13 days ago

I’m not questioning that the capitalists brought about fascism. I’m just saying that they did it because nothing is ever enough for them, not because they were reacting to a threatening left-wing working class political coalition. IMHO it’s more like they lied more and more to get votes, until…

jasminevp.bsky.social•13 days ago

the flood of lies and conspiracy theories brought Trump, and the capitalists were as stupid about the value to them of Trump as they were about the value to them of Hitler.

susannahredelfs.bsky.social•13 days ago

Right. Trump is just the latest iteration of the fascism of the owner class trying to keep labor under control. Get rid of him, there will be more. We have to overthrow the owners, bring them down. Otherwise it will be Trump after Trump, gross as that is to think about.

wertheresistance.bsky.social•13 days ago

If the #employer class the 3-4% of people in any country decide how much and where to #invest are holding back on decisions ➡️then we have a #recession #richardwolff
https://youtu.be/W68PjKmgBR8?si=73K0RdQolcViP5Tj

marg-feuille.bsky.social•13 days ago

Pope Leo XIII started the Catholic labour movement. He was against Marxism, but understood that workers needed rights. He promoted political participation of the people. This led to Christian democracy parties and Christian labour unions. Yep, a Catholic pope! I can't believe it myself.

durruticalm.bsky.social•13 days ago

sounds like religious social democracy

marg-feuille.bsky.social•12 days ago

It has been described as the church's social doctrine for modern times.

feralcommie.bsky.social•13 days ago

Iiiiiinteresting

drs562.bsky.social•13 days ago

We're in a class war that's masquerading as everything but.
An organized working class could win this war.
Will the working class unite?
https://generalstrikeus.com/

justifiedmeh.mehcorp.net•13 days ago

Well, now they've got the worker so divided.

It is incredibly disheartening to hear my fellow workers DEFEND the company. DEFEND the ruling class. DEFEND their abuse of workers. Workers like them.

You point it out, and some will scream, "This is why things are getting worse!" At you.

durruticalm.bsky.social•13 days ago

there have always been collaborators (whether duped or just bought out) with every form of oppression

Workers simping for the owners

Minorities in the white supremacist police forces / army brutalizing their own

Transphobic LGB folks / TERFs

But don't give up hope that they will be defeated

czechwreck.bsky.social•13 days ago

Fascism has been around since there has been a class system. There have always been people who will use fascistic means to gain wealth and power, and some form of it has been used by many established ruling classes whenever the lower classes start getting dangerously uppity.

tomnob.bsky.social•12 days ago

Both white supremacy and capitalism (fundamentally amoral belief systems at the core of western liberalism) are sunsetting; we’re living through the furious outbursts of those trying to maintain control. Going back is not possible; the only way forward is through

bluebunaoi.bsky.social•12 days ago

We literally just lived through a "replace the bad man with someone better" moment and went right back to the bad man. You can't fix this problem by simply replacing the guy. You have to dig it out at the root and institute structural change that makes gov't more resistant to it in the future.

eijaksa.bsky.social•13 days ago

I just can't figure out why so many capitalists decided to support Trump. While socialist ideas are decently popular in the US, the Democrats have been doing a perfectly adequate job of suppressing them. The situation isn't anywhere near interwar Italy or Germany with their large socialist parties.

eijaksa.bsky.social•13 days ago

One analysis I read suggested this was specifically Silicon Valley figuring they needed the government to bail them out on crypto and AI investments that aren't looking good, but that doesn't explain why so many broadly liberal institutions like universities and newspapers are kissing the ring.

kyulen742.bsky.social•13 days ago

Liberals want to go back to the "normal" we had before Trump. But that normal was not good for most working class people, and it was what led to the current situation in the first place. If we go back to that we'll just get another Trump in a few years. We need to end capitalism entirely.

cyranokale.bsky.social•12 days ago

In Minneapolis, reactionary landlords actually believe that they're the good guys.

wertheresistance.bsky.social•13 days ago

Correct 💯 #trump is a symptom of #capitalistdecline / also #chrishedges correctly identified that a #liberal class that doesn't meet #worker material needs quickly loses legitimacy/ if the #Democratic party did more for Joe Everyman, I think #trump would have far less support from the working class

jerseymom.bsky.social•13 days ago

The problem was that Biden/Harris did not brag enough about all the wonderful programs they started to help the middle class. Also, it’s pretty damn hard to fight the other side when they spew lies 24/7 to their viewers on Fox News and the rest. The marks believed the con artist!

killercyborg.bsky.social•13 days ago

Yeah, it's mostly the latter issue.
It doesn't matter what the Democrats do or say when what most people believe is dictated by either a rightwing media brainwashing industry with 30+ years of cult-building,
OR an oligopoly of corporate news companies who put profit uber alles.

wertheresistance.bsky.social•13 days ago

It's definitely a #davidvsgoliath battle but still #billclinton and #barackobama and #joebiden were able to get elected in this climate. Trump only won by 1.6 percentage points with #jeffbezos and #elonmusk helping him. #trump got 49.8% of the vote while #kamalaharris got 48.3%. #trump NOT mandate

jerseymom.bsky.social•13 days ago

Yes it pissed me off so bad on election night when left wing media was using the word mandate before all the damn votes were counted. They played with fire for ratings and now we are wall getting burned!

wertheresistance.bsky.social•13 days ago

We need to be specific. #msnbc and #cnn may be #liberal but they are not #leftist / genuine #progressive media like #seculartalk and #davidpakman and #thommhartmann are massively growing their audience

https://youtube.com/@seculartalk?si=-YibPaD20wD-7LZ-

https://youtube.com/@thedavidpakmanshow?si=xRJYZwAGuN7fBmHW

https://youtube.com/@thomhartmann?si=bEN2dbb9moPBrmYC

paddymendez.bsky.social•13 days ago

ahem, genocide

wertheresistance.bsky.social•13 days ago

10k of loan forgiveness was a good program but we needed a broad based program like the #newdeal or #NaomiKlein #greennewdeal / $25-$40 government project jobs for people with Bachelor's or less would have been massively popular

jerseymom.bsky.social•13 days ago

True many old school democrats think that the people do not want a progressive party. Stay in the middle. Nope. We need massive progressive change!

wertheresistance.bsky.social•13 days ago

Members of the public who do not move #fascist will move #left during an #economic collapse

steve1970peng.bsky.social•13 days ago

Facts

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