Labour is once again chasing headlines in right-wing papers, once again the rhetoric doesn't tally with the policy, and once again the papers will be hostile anyway. If the present leadership can't understand the pointlessness of fighting the last election from government, it's time to replace them. - ThreadSky

dhothersall.bsky.social • 17 days ago

Labour is once again chasing headlines in right-wing papers, once again the rhetoric doesn't tally with the policy, and once again the papers will be hostile anyway. If the present leadership can't understand the pointlessness of fighting the last election from government, it's time to replace them.

Comments

indyvoices.bsky.social•17 days ago

With what (or whom?)

humzas-brain.bsky.social•17 days ago

With what?

alistairmay.bsky.social•17 days ago

I'm genuinely torn. I don't like immigrant bashing, and I'm very pro-Asylum welcoming. However, the brutal fact is the vast majority of people, outside middle-class bubbles, are genuinely concerned. If the concerns are high-handedly treated as deplorable, we end up with Brexit all over again.

clacksee.bsky.social•17 days ago

The solution to this is to educate people.

alistairmay.bsky.social•17 days ago

How'd that go with Brexit.?

clacksee.bsky.social•17 days ago

That’s exactly the point. Brexit vote correlated strongly with education. The more education, the lower the vote for Brexit.

alistairmay.bsky.social•17 days ago

That only means you convinced the higher-educated, and perhaps simply appeared as if you were calling 52% of people dumb and uneducated (which isn't really likely to win them over)

clacksee.bsky.social•17 days ago

I’m not calling people any ableist slurs, actually. I’m saying the solution remains educating people. I’m sorry that you think I didn’t do a good enough job educating the 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU. I certainly spoke to as many people as I could.

magnets.bsky.social•17 days ago

you can lead public opinion as well as follow it.

dhothersall.bsky.social•17 days ago

Imagine.

alistairmay.bsky.social•17 days ago

Again true. But, isn't that what Hillary thought? We assumed when we'd told people "facts" on Brexit they'd also see sense. We educated people on the folly of indy, but polls have it at 50%. The danger is you simply come across as patronising, tin-eared, and elitist. (And, no, I don't have answer)

magnets.bsky.social•17 days ago

i mean the remain campaign was led by the CEO of M&S and Alan Johnson. they did not give a shit. Hillary didn't bother turning up to campaign in swing states and was widely reviled across american society. there's no one answer but e.g. the SNP have been explicitly pro-immigration for years

grahammuir.bsky.social•17 days ago

“We educated people on the folly of indy”?
No, you didn’t.
The polls of 50% and the fact that support for indy has never fallen significantly below the 45% in 10 years show you did nothing of the kind.

alistairmay.bsky.social•17 days ago

That's rather my point. Simply putting facts, figures, and statistical realities before people doesn't always change minds. It sometimes only serves to irritate.

milton75.bsky.social•16 days ago

I wish this would happen. But it won't.

We can blame the right-wing press, and they certainly should be blamed, but just like a fair percentage of people want to listen to Farage, there has always been a willing readership for the gutter-press here (but shh, you mustn't ever call people stupid).

milton75.bsky.social•16 days ago

It's not that Starmer is doing anything different now he's in power - it's just the same as in opposition - the "that argument is done" position regarding Brexit is at the heart of all this.

milton75.bsky.social•16 days ago

Brexit was such a shambles that by all rights it ought to make its supporters politically toxic, but in post-truth days that's not the case. Instead that's not the narrative in most of the press and certainly not from government.

milton75.bsky.social•16 days ago

Whether called UKIP, Brexit Party, or Reform, Farage and his hangers-on ought to be unelectable, but Starmer and Co. are unwilling to call him out for fear of offending the millions of imbeciles that bought into it (and continue to buy into it).

comradekenobi.bsky.social•17 days ago

We ended up with Brexit partially because of politicians unwillingness to challenge the reactionary narratives pushed about immigration

gerryguk7.bsky.social•17 days ago

Exactly. Voters especially don't want to be patronised with tough rhetoric that won't survive a winter "crisis" in the NHS that is exacerbated by staffing shortages. HMG needs to level with people about the value and necessity of high levels of immigration because of our demographics.

teajunkie.bsky.social•17 days ago

That's because politicians and the media keep telling them that immigrants are a threat.
I asked my Farage-supporting neighbour how many people he thinks arrive on small boats to claim asylum. He thought it was 35,000 a week! Labour is just feeding that misplaced fear.

andrewadams99.bsky.social•17 days ago

But the outrage and disgust I've seen today isn't related to whatever concerns the public might have about immigration, it's at the language used by Starmer. You can address people's concerns without demonising immigration and immigrants, and being dishonest about the effect of past policies.

bigfez.bsky.social•17 days ago

Calling half the country a 'middle class bubble' and the other half 'the vast majority of people' 🙄

bigfez.bsky.social•17 days ago

(It's not exactly 50/50 of course, and has fluctuated a lot over the last decade - which in itself is a reason to doubt that 'government crackdown' headlines help allay fears - but yeah. I dont think you can stand up your claim about 'vast majority' at all.)

bigfez.bsky.social•17 days ago

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-of-concern/

teaanddata.bsky.social•17 days ago

All the good stuff the party is doing in power is lost when the language used to appeal to people who can never be appealed to. Honestly, the coms folks all need fired.

welshracer.bsky.social•17 days ago

not so much an island of strangers but a political party of strangers.

dhothersall.bsky.social•17 days ago

I disagree on moral grounds with the direction of travel in Labour on issues like trans rights and immigration, but I accept that others in the party differ. What truly vexes me is that these positions are also terrible politics, playing to a gallery which is literally *never* going to vote for us.

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