If American media was actually the problem that explained Trump, it’s worth reckoning how Rupert Murdoch owns way over a majority of the Australian market and somehow they haven’t even come close to Trumpism.
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There's far more Trumpism in Australia than many of us would like, but having a culture based on themes of "mateship" and "a fair go" rather than national exceptionalism does help fend it off a bit, as does strong trade and industry unions
Tbh, a lot of Aussies think it's "just all a bit much" 😅
It IS weird how we're the ones who still have a king, but our government is acting more democratically atm 😅
Generally, Aussies find the level of US enthusiasm for political parties (& everything else) over the top & off-putting, so our dislike of loud, arrogant tall poppies is also part of it
This is one thing I will say that while I haven't quite been enough around the country to know for sure, I'm reasonably confident in: Australians do not worship politicians like Americans do.
Even if Dutton wanted to storm your parliament, no one is going to show up.
And like I am not hearing a lot of takes about what a genius strategist Albo is for pulling off his victory. It's more like "Ok, hope he doesn't suck too much!'
Maybe I need to get into more Labor stan group chats? Haven't really found any of those.
Because Murdoch’s operations were very different here than in the US. Fox News was a right wing political organ from the start. Whereas Murdoch in Australia (and the UK) mostly ran newspapers. He used the power this gave him to extort concessions from BOTH sides of politics - until c. 2010.
Whatever his personal views, his newspapers did not become right-wing organs until the 2010s, and their influence has declined ever since (due mostly to the wider media environment, though IMO). So it’s not just Murdoch v non-Murdoch, but different aims and methods.
I'm a bit unclear why exactly it doesn't catch in the same way. I've mostly come to accept that we all speak the same language but we are in fact literally different countries.
Australia doesn’t have quite such polarised TV. We have something like Faux News but it has a relatively small audience and is less biased during the day. And culturally, we’re big on tall poppy syndrome; we don’t get so attached to any particular leader, and despise most of our billionaires.
If a prime minister/opposition leader drops severely in the polls, they tend to get dropped by their party or get wiped out at election time (as we just saw) so they can’t stray too far from the centre.
And in recent years, thanks to preferential voting, around 1 in 3 voters preference a minor party or independent over the two major parties, so there’s less incentive for politicians to be more extreme to gain political capital; the main parties need to differentiate themselves from the extremes,
I have def noticed that Sky News aside (which mostly seems to cover American politics anyhow), it's barely noticeable to an outsider like me that these are Murdoch operations.
yep, agree but my fear is always that such a figure emerges suddenly, acts like a meme and leaves the country aghast that he’s growing in popularity. Trump in 2015 was a joke
It’s not impossible but it’s not like a ton of Australians aren’t trying. And they are polling terribly when they do, unlike Trump who polled great in GOP circles from the start of his run.
Compulsory voting in Australia does minimise craziness in politics, as two here mentioned.
US parties need to make people mad to get out the vote.
Also Australia has no delusions of ruling the world.
It's a humble country, a big lazy South Sea desert island.
Murdoch press is a laughing stock here.
I'm honestly way more interested in preferred choice than I am the compulsory voting, which I don't really think does too much. After all, Brazil has it and got Bolsonaro.
I also don't think the US parties HAVE to make people mad.
I think you're right, but I was limited to 300 bytes.
I often write on this forum about the huge importance and urgency of countries like the UK and USA going over to preferential voting.
I'm a fanatic for it because there is no such thing as a wasted vote and it facilitates entry of new parties.
One of the many advantages of Australian preferential voting is that you don't get the "split of the left".
In most countries, the political right are unified and disciplined and the left are chaotic and individualist.
Then first past the post always benefits the right.
The UK is a prime example!
That election really helped me understand the complexity of voting behavior. I worked for a Black woman and there was a white supremacist who ran against her. His only ask of his voters was that they did NOT rank the Black woman.
Large amounts ignored and they put her over the top.
The preferential system gives such a huge amount of power to the voters.
The candidates have to woo the voters all the way down the list because ultimately it's the relative preferences for the leading two candidates which determine the outcome, no matter how far down the list they are!!!
This doesn't explain it but in 2013-22 there was already a rightwing govt here that was cozy w Murdoch & other reactionary media. Maybe they didn't see trying to push Trump style as "necessary"? Anyway, following coz we may still be at risk of that shit in the future so any insights are helpful
I’ve never even been to Canberra so take my insights with a grain of salt. Just had conversations and watched the news.
But whatever Australian fascism is going to look like, and I def don’t rule it out, it’s just going to be a very different shape than what happened in the US.
So in Aus that specific relationship w celebrity, being "the best" like Trump is really socially unacceptable. Which is true somewhat in USA too, but in Aus that level of wanker is just asking to be wrecked. Its an oversimplification but Au fasc would maybe be more an "ordinary bloke" type of thing
I def am not really too into the cultural explanations because there are a ton of ways I could tell a story about how America would never accept a tyrant...mainly our entire nation being founded in rebellion to a king.
Anyway I def appreciate this post & convo. I voted socialist 😅 and am a unionist so I reckon the best thing I can do is support those movement. We are making progress tho its slow & steady, not dramatic. But the more I learn about USA the more I realise I have to learn. Everyday is a school day ✊️✊️✊️
I dunno, look into Gina Reinhardt for Aussie fascism 😩
Meanwhile can we help USA comrades from here? its not too clear what people want from international community? Is there a unified statement about how to help? A lot of us want to help but don't understand USA enough to know how...
Honestly, Americans are gonna need to solve their own problems.
You don’t need to know much about our politics to know that the only way Trump leaves is if he is removed from office. That’s what Americans need to push for. Most of them already believe it.
Yeah. I have hope you guys can do it. Its maybe a slight cultural difference but USA seem to want to do everything on its own. Its probs true only people on the ground there can do it, but man... if it happened here I reckon we'd be asking for all the international pressure we could get...
Something I do pay attention to a bit in the U.S. which I think foresaw the storm is how insane both the right was acting in our politics and also how insane the left was in not pushing back on it in any meaningful way.
Like our constant government shutdown/debt ceiling threats.
Compulsory voting helps in Australia. The Liberal (right wing) party in Australia has courted the fundamental Christian vote (especially when Scott Morrison was its leader) but nowhere near the extent of Trump’s religious charades.
As a comparative matter, America's electoral system is a bigger difference (for the worse) from peer democracies than anything about our media environment.
He pushed the U.S., U.K., and Australia to the right. I think we were more prone to Trumpism for a few reasons: allied monied interests, right-wing infrastructure that preexisted Murdoch's focus on the U.S., and the lasting impact of the Cold War on the U.S. ideologically.
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(Oversimplification of course.)
Tbh, a lot of Aussies think it's "just all a bit much" 😅
I do think the U.S. being a superpower that is used to being bossy and obnoxious is a super important dynamic.
But you know, the country of hating kings and tyranny, this is kind of a weird fit.
Generally, Aussies find the level of US enthusiasm for political parties (& everything else) over the top & off-putting, so our dislike of loud, arrogant tall poppies is also part of it
Even if Dutton wanted to storm your parliament, no one is going to show up.
Maybe I need to get into more Labor stan group chats? Haven't really found any of those.
I'm a bit unclear why exactly it doesn't catch in the same way. I've mostly come to accept that we all speak the same language but we are in fact literally different countries.
I think most Americans would look at this logo and be genuinely confused.
Also I find it hilarious how literally every American dessert I've had here they remove half the sugar from the actual dish haha.
Even their Temu Trump was a trash cover version.
US parties need to make people mad to get out the vote.
Also Australia has no delusions of ruling the world.
It's a humble country, a big lazy South Sea desert island.
Murdoch press is a laughing stock here.
I also don't think the US parties HAVE to make people mad.
The other things I think are important.
I often write on this forum about the huge importance and urgency of countries like the UK and USA going over to preferential voting.
I'm a fanatic for it because there is no such thing as a wasted vote and it facilitates entry of new parties.
In most countries, the political right are unified and disciplined and the left are chaotic and individualist.
Then first past the post always benefits the right.
The UK is a prime example!
Bit confusing at first but worked fine. Wasted votes should be relegated to the dustbin of history.
Large amounts ignored and they put her over the top.
The candidates have to woo the voters all the way down the list because ultimately it's the relative preferences for the leading two candidates which determine the outcome, no matter how far down the list they are!!!
But whatever Australian fascism is going to look like, and I def don’t rule it out, it’s just going to be a very different shape than what happened in the US.
It's too easy to retroactively explain behavior.
In that case maybe it is timing afterall? It seems too simple but in 10 or 20yrs ppl here may not have the obvious warning of USA and vote differently
Meanwhile can we help USA comrades from here? its not too clear what people want from international community? Is there a unified statement about how to help? A lot of us want to help but don't understand USA enough to know how...
Honestly, Americans are gonna need to solve their own problems.
You don’t need to know much about our politics to know that the only way Trump leaves is if he is removed from office. That’s what Americans need to push for. Most of them already believe it.
Like our constant government shutdown/debt ceiling threats.
That's a wipeout anywhere.