I don't want to offend anyone but I genuinely hate the egg thing it just inforces the false belief that how you act, dress etc determines your gender
- a fem trans guy
here's an alt. perspective:
interpretation of art is always qualitative and based on a person's perspective. many trans people see these comics and resonate with the idea portrayed as relating to their own lived experience. our culture's best way to convey that acknowledgement is through some jokes.
that is to say, the egg comments aren't trying to force an idea about gender, nor are they trying to force shen into a certain path. rather, they are just some harmless tame jokes to show someone's appreciation for how this resonates with them.
what IS harmful is perpetuating the idea that "egg" is an inherently insulting or gross term. Not only is Shen an adult who could at any time speak out about them being uncomfortable (which they never have), but this behaviour is either intentionally or unintentionally propagating transphobia
Oh yes, what are the Queeros but God's lil' army of rascals, coming to upend the old stale orders, born from man's fears, and certainly not God's love?
I think what some people are missing is that this applies to any group that people sometimes try to enter as a hater.
Exposure is the cure to a lot of hate. Be it about race, politics, sexuality, gender, or just a fandom. Sneaking maliciously in a group only to realize they aren't what you thought.
I mean it's a literal wolf in sheep's clothing, adjacent to what TERFs accuse all trans women of being, I can see twitter being jumpy about that especially given how impatient and lacking in good faith they always are in reading and reacting to anything
Yeah, like if it was just the wolf in sheep's clothing thing I'd see it, but it's more "joins group intending to cause harm, finds out it's chill" which lines up more with the transphobe to transgender pipeline
See you can almost make it make a slant kind of sense that the trans read is reading too much into it until you look at the third comic with the *weirdly* specific parallel to trans girls being afraid of being outed and kicked out. https://bsky.app/profile/shenanigansen.bsky.social/post/3lp6izrfjj22o
There's nothing about egg jokes or trans responses that *excludes* other readings. The idea that it can *only* be one or the other is lowkey transmisogyny culture. It's that assumption in the back of your mind that trans women aren't allowed to exist without stealing from everyone else.
And yes, it's a stupid statement, and it's one you don't even believe when laid out like that, which is the literal entire point of feminism, we get these responses baked into us from before we even know how to think about them so it's necessary to point them out and name them
I get it, and I think, like most art, anyone can give it meaning themselves. I just know that sometimes people get too invested in certain ideas and think it's better to be aware of all possibilities.
Like I said in the third post, the ladybug post before these ones makes it feel extra eggy.
And of course this is highly presumptuous of me. But my goodness, do the themes in your comics remind me of a lot of the feelings I had to bury deep until I started taking steps to make my life better. It may not be E for you. But hey! Who knows??
People can write trans metaphors without themselves being trans. I appreciate how you're trying to help Shen, but I can assure you that they get comments like these under ever single post they make.
I *think* shen is just a very cishet guy who likes queer stuff and makes queer coded art, but is not himself queer. I could be wrong, but either way is none of my business. Until he says anything about himself, I'm not assuming. Same way we don't assume a trans person to "be" what they are not.
Shapeshifting like Mystique is a tropey superpower, but you'll still find a huge amount of trans people who as an egg were like "my favorite superpower? shapeshifting, I just think it'd be really neat haha"
It wouldn’t surprise me at this point that he leans into the theme more out of feeding the comments. He could have chosen to lean into it as part of the fun rather than getting upset that people keep calling him an egg.
Trans art often has universal appeal because *everyone* has felt trapped. For example, obviously "I saw the TV Glow" worked on me because dysphoria, but what it actually reminded me of even more than that was when I was working a shitty office job I felt trapped in
It really depends on what the feelings are, exactly. The artist has evaded the conversation multiple times (which is totally fine! It's his privacy and he deserves that). But the themes are consistent with trans art/content, so there's reason to believe he's AT LEAST genderqueer.
You probably know that stuff more than me, but something about art being trans coded rubs me the wrong way.
Maybe I just dont want to admit we are coded, readable, one sided to a certain degree, enough to be picked out by our behaviour.
Whatever it is, Shen enjoys the attention and thats important
But also. When I spent years as a they/them, wearing exclusively women’s clothing and constantly wearing makeup? I kinda wish someone would have just pushed me a bit and said, “hey, you’re a woman, right?”
Just popped in to say, yuuuup EXTREMELY relatable and daumn really Really REALLY wish I'd just tried a couple of Estradiol Valerate injections DECADES sooner... Way cheaper & brought waaay more happiness than 17yrs of being like "yeah I'm just a furry, that's it, toootally still Cis Tho"
((both))
I'm not going to outright say that Shen doesn't have gender dysphoria because I don't know him, but I think we should respect their autonomy enough to let him figure it out. There's no doubt that he's probably already heard enough people suggesting he might have dysphoria.
Fair I guess. I wonder how long it would have taken me to realize without like an occasional prod from a trans friend. But an occasional joke from a trans friend is a lot different than being an artist who almost always gets people questioning your gender identity whenever you post.
💯. I really hesitated before posting to be honest. But THIS particular comic just screamed gender dysphoria. I’m gonna not do this for another Shen comic, unless there is ever a coming out comic, then it’s all congratulations. As I said, it was highly presumptive of me. Shen gets to be Shen.
i'm not gonna be like everyone else and call shen an egg, but do note i have noticed the rather on-the-nose trans themes in his comic and i greatly appreciate them
Now I kinda want a part where their costumes come off and the sheep still accept them anyway. Like the hood part gets knocked off and their ears pop up and then they get hugged.
I enjoy this comic. It reminds me of at least one friend I pulled away from toxic gamer groups by just showing them that video games can be fun and silly and it doesn't have to be so angry all the time
Reminder to everyone scolding trans girls for identifying egg-like behavior: The 'egg prime directive' was created by cis people, suggesting that someone may be trans is not an insult because being trans is not a negative.
Also the fact it's called a "Prime Directive" should also be proof you should ignore it because the thing it's named for is objectively shown to be bad every time
the Prime Directive is a concept designed to sound appealing to liberals with white guilt and exists to be broken over the knee by whichever Star Trek protagonist is trying to save lives this week
The Prime Directive as written by Star Trek's showrunners literally was made to be broken
we're trying to save lives by bailing our siblings out of the closet and into the happy life they deserve, we scarcely ever need your condescending attitudes and we especially dont need them now
Wait wasn't the "prime directive" thing about queer people as a whole and waiting for them to concretely come out before making public comments, or am I thinking of something else
Growing up in queer circles that always seemed to be the etiquette and I've tried to abide by it
Jocat doesn't give me egg vibes because I don't get the impression that he's dissatisfied or looking to change anything, he seems happy right where he is.
i mean, no gender is a negative either, but being misgendered still sucks shit.
suggesting someone may be trans is not an insult, but suggesting they're an *egg* (hasn't realized they're trans yet) is condescending and i've never met a trans person who enjoyed being called one when they were one
As a transfem myself: There's a difference between going "hey you might not be cis" when someone you know appears to be questioning their gender, and just deciding unprompted that you know some random stranger's identity better than they do. The former is helpful, the latter is just misgendering.
Like, the problem isn't that people are "insulted" by being labeled as trans. It's that a bunch of Internet commenters you barely know persistently telling you you're not what you say you are is harmful & disrespectful - and new people commenting unsolicited still unintentionally add to the barrage.
i mean, i actively avoid tryna push anyone into a box but i find bringing them to the question and encouraging them to consider it is usually enough :> just like a “hey i kinda felt similar then realized i was a girl, maybe consider your gender”
I'm not sure if I found the original source, but the Dysphoria Bible says that the EPD was coined by a friend of the author (in the "Am I Trans" page). Not sure if that friend is trans, but the author is.
It also outlines how the EPD was originally intended to be used. I think it's worth a read.
Was it actually made by cis people? I've almost never heard it mentioned outside of trans circles. It feels more like a trans meme that became controversial over time rather than something explicitly made to harm trans people.
Well, yeah, but that's not what everyone thinks the EPD means. Afaik, it has multiple different interpretations, so it's possible people used to use it in a different way but that got twisted.
So instead of being made to be harmful, maybe it just used to mean something else to some point.
I feel like "don't treat cis-identifying people like they're probably trans people going through a phase" is just the flip side of the same coin as "don't treat trans-identifying people like they're probably cis people going through a phase"
It's literally all just "respect people's stated genders"
I'm not cis, but I would have figured this out sooner if it weren't for well-meaning trans people trying to pull me out of the closet before I was ready
Or they could protecc the sheep!
Wolves can eat things like foxes or lone coyotes that try to eat the sheep, as well as other prey animals that may out-compete grass-eating in their plains (like rabbits, deer, etc) to keep the sheep on top!
As such this remains a purely wholesome hood classic.
I remember years ago a gif about a Black guy trying frolicking in a field for the first time and he was like "where has this been my whole life". People gotta stop knocking things they've never done.
Was a mistake before to try engaging w the discourse, but just wanted to say to the eggposters rq
1) Shen gets 100s of those comments. Yours isn't gonna be the one to "break through", no need to act like it's a moral imperative
2) generally considered bad form to pester someone not ready to come out
Omg a friend of mine was nagging me to read that book, which I started doing, and then I'm now finding my first Dorly Hall reference here, out in the wild!
I know. Found the A03 link. Am around chapter 12, and I'm seriously suspecting it Dorly doesn't actually have a mind control ray stored in a kitchen cabinet somewhere
With how effective the program seems to be. And even if the girls were to know of it, they probably wouldn't care
Can you point out where you felt it was necessary to go to defence of Shen (adult) in the comments section from the scary trans people resonating with the comics and their lived experience and using it as an opportunity to make a harmless joke that Shen has not once expressed discomfort with? :)
moreso the fact that people are okay with cishets making 'sus' homophobic jokes or asking a queer/trans person if they're sure 100 times and it's okay but when a trans person makes a tame ass egg joke once it's suddenly a disgusting breach of boundaries
??? this makes very little sense to me in this context
ive always thought that the persistent insistence of an unconfirmed trait in someone, as if they always know better than them, is usually considered rude, regardless if said trait is considered good or bad
It's more the chorus of worms who always come out of the woodwork to scold trans people for recognizing their experience in others and daring to say something about it
im definitely out of the loop somewhat in this regard cuz for my sanity, i dont browse much, but i feel like i only see fellow trans peeps or allies arguing about it or expressing general distaste whenever i hear about it. in general im exhausted from the infighting that happens in these spaces
i swear i dont think theres even a set definition of this egg stuff anymore when everyones fighting about it and giving like 3 or 4 different answers.
ill happily guide someone on their journey with no vague statements, but im not just gonna put em in a box like i know their brain better than them
Hey, folks should be able to explore that in their own time instead of having it forced on them by community pressure from others. Their own identity and exploration is sovereign to them and they are allowed to move at their own pace.
A: Shen is their own adult person who regularly speaks with and does funny bits around the trans community, so there is no "prime directive" because they can make their own informed decisions.
C: You are right. People should be able to define themselves without forces demanding that they confirm to a specific form of self expression. You deserve to be whoever you want to be.l without being pressured to a certain form of identity.
You know that Trans People as a community have expressed a massive amount shared history in dealing with the oppressive nature of "society's" enforcement of "gender norms" & it's a common sentiment most of us wished we had people help encourage gender exploration sooner when we expressed incongruity
What you should be question is why you seem to have such a massive stick up your ass at a marginalized community for trying to encourage someone displaying a significant pattern of being a member of that community in the closet to explore their identity and potentially be a shitload happier.
No one is saying
"shen is definitely totally absolutely Trans"
what is being said is
"holy shit, Shen has expressed a SHITLOAD of gender incongruity related themes... Like approaching F1nn5ter levels... Sooo maybe TRY EXPLORING THAT instead of just HINTING at it all the time"
hate to do this but maybe you should recognise that you still have a lot of growing up and learning to do and that this maybe isn't the thing you should be spending your time on?
i'm pretty sure it's been made clear by now that you don't know what you're speaking on- so maybe like. do some learning
and i don't mean this to offend; genuinely it seems you had the right intentions but not enough knowledge about the nature of the topic to form a nuanced idea
the only bad part of all of that is your insistance to resist the idea that you could be wrong despite that lack of lived experience :/
Chill
I just pointed out a common sense
Like why are you mad that I just said "maybe let's not make assumptions about someone because you think they have done something inherently feminine"
Thing is: World at large believes being a trans girl is bad, and pressures trans girls to... Well, not be girls
Many trans girls wish someone would give them the push of 'you might be a girl'
I agree sometimes it can be overstepping, but why are you agreeing with the Right that being a girl is bad?
If you're reading "Trans" specifically from this comic, please explain why wolves and sheep are used. It's kinda problematic to label any particular gender as the wolf or the sheep.
My reading is that this is an allusion to people who disavow "cringe" interests... until they try it for themselves.
I don’t wanna die on the “Shen is an egg” hill, but honestly it seems like a pretty good allegory as long as you don’t take it to literally mean “men and women are different species”
I mean, on a surface level I can see why “wolf = predator = man” would look bad, however, in this comic it’s pretty obvious that their “predator instincts” are really just caused by outside forces (and reinforced amongst themselves), but all of them are able to switch their perspective by not-
and as a trans, why yes, I do happen to have struggled and still sometimes struggle with both a perception and a self-perception that my masculine traits signal a predatory nature, and I do think that other people struggling with this might draw it this way
perceived power meets perceived powerless -> realizes that perceived powerlessness can be quite cool actually -> spreads comfort by allowing itself to be powerless and convince others to follow
and now it works as templae for *gestures at everything*
as the power/powerless dichotomy is just as fake as is every single other one, it just makes sense that it wouldnt survive in an actual praxis test once the power is simply not accepted as existing
I think it's good to encourage people to investigate their gender identity. But to call them an egg (like this comment section is doing) has always felt... creepy.
Like, let Shen decide (and declare) for themself. Just because it reads that way for YOU doesn't mean it's what the artist had in mind
Is it creepy to say someone is definitely cis? If you don't think so you should investigate why you feel that pressure being applied to someone to be cis is not the same as to be trans.
Legitimately, if shen wants people to stop, then clarifying or stopping with the trans allegories is the way to do it. Cis society constantly pressures people to be cis, it’s not creepy to talk about how trans people relate to these trans allegories and how there may be something there
In practice, yes that's the strategy they should adopt if they want it to stop for themselves. I agree. But I'm speaking more broadly here. I think assuming any aspect of someone's identity that they aren't explicitly stating is bad regardless of whether that identity is normative or queer.
To be clear: People saying "Wow this reflects my experience as a trans person" are not who I have a problem with, they're exactly what I love about the queer community on bluesky.
People saying "Wow Shen must be an egg with how trans-coded this is!" are who I have a problem with.
Suggesting someone is an egg is not deciding for them, and maybe you should reflect on whatever biases have led you to label that behavior as ‘creepy’. No one says this about cis gays when they talk about people in the closet.
And most importantly, gender and sexuality both exist on a spectrum and are not constants for everyone. It's good to be proud of who you are and the fact that you've figured it out for yourself and found your community.
And to clarify:
"You might be []" is good.
"Omg this means you're []!" Is bad.
No gamer! No! Other way around! The lycanthropy is the libidinal feminine fluxes of the Outside which are embraced, masculine discipline (toxic masculinity a misnomer) is the purview of the Manhood as a tool of the human security system to guard the gates and walls of the Polis from the Others.
fun fact my grandmother was an evil psycho bitch and she made my dad like that, so being an abusive piece of shit is not at all confined by sex or gender
The most passionate furry haters I see are the guys on twitch with over 9001 emotes of a cartoon frog to convey their every emotion. And I always love that level of zero selfawareness.
As the non-furry spouse of a furry, I do love all the "you must a furry too" I get from furry haters who know *way* more about the furry community than I do. Like, its okay. You can be a furry. They're cool.
Actually, under section 5.28b of the Furries and Otherkin legislature, this is classed as a Class 5 infraction, your mandated fursona and fursuit will be dispatched immediately.
Oh, I traded the fursona for a perfect IV Ditto in Pokemon Black and White. Sold the fur suit to pay for the better part a of 40k army. They were gonna collect dust otherwise and I wanted them to go to a good home ^.^
Man... we are seeing the "two types of people" problem in the comments of these comics huh? Those who think the TALKING CARTOON WOLVES should conform to an outsider's perception of what a "Wolf" should be; and the others who just want the TALKING CARTOON WOLVES to be happy.
Comments
- a fem trans guy
interpretation of art is always qualitative and based on a person's perspective. many trans people see these comics and resonate with the idea portrayed as relating to their own lived experience. our culture's best way to convey that acknowledgement is through some jokes.
Not so good at aiming it.
YOU WANNA BE A LITTLE SHEEPY? BAA BAA MOTHERFUCKER JUST TELL ME
Exposure is the cure to a lot of hate. Be it about race, politics, sexuality, gender, or just a fandom. Sneaking maliciously in a group only to realize they aren't what you thought.
https://bsky.app/profile/shenanigansen.bsky.social/post/3lp6izrfjj22o
Like I said in the third post, the ladybug post before these ones makes it feel extra eggy.
I myself am they/them non-binary but mostly express myself outwardly as cis because of the world we live in.
So, I'm def not thinking that whole bit, haha
Cause like. As a deeply closeted trans woman up until the age of 38, I read your comics and all I can think is - whelp, “that’s dysphoria”
https://youtu.be/NcSL0905E58?si=70EeMSHlV1LqcdIx
Like, is Shen really an egg or has he found the code to create art trans ppl can identify with.
Or maybe these feelings arent exclusive to being transgender?
I wouldn't know x.x
I think this follows the same route as born men who play female characters being secretly trans.
But I can totally get why peeps wanna view these themes with that kinda lense.
Whatever it is, Shen probably enjoys the attention x3
I will check it out!
Yeah I can see that! Shen is actually the wolf who manipulates us sheep!!
Maybe I just dont want to admit we are coded, readable, one sided to a certain degree, enough to be picked out by our behaviour.
Whatever it is, Shen enjoys the attention and thats important
We analyze people for their art all the time - especially in art lit or English classes. Our souls come through in what we create.
So based on track record alone, he has some things to process. But when? That's up to him.
But also. When I spent years as a they/them, wearing exclusively women’s clothing and constantly wearing makeup? I kinda wish someone would have just pushed me a bit and said, “hey, you’re a woman, right?”
((both))
Wether he has dysphoria or not is none of our business
Asshats like YOU are th only ones sayin
"I absolutely know their gender & how dare you even suggest they question my assumption"
The rest of us are merely saying
"You know that particular thing is really common among non-Cis people, and it's OK to explore that"
Which, IS a YOU problem
Or peer pressure
Or it’s just being silly.
It's right up there on the "Todo list" with "dress go spinny", Blahaj and boofing progesterone.
I hope you're alright Shen ❤️
Worth watching.
we're trying to save lives by bailing our siblings out of the closet and into the happy life they deserve, we scarcely ever need your condescending attitudes and we especially dont need them now
Growing up in queer circles that always seemed to be the etiquette and I've tried to abide by it
suggesting someone may be trans is not an insult, but suggesting they're an *egg* (hasn't realized they're trans yet) is condescending and i've never met a trans person who enjoyed being called one when they were one
It also outlines how the EPD was originally intended to be used. I think it's worth a read.
So instead of being made to be harmful, maybe it just used to mean something else to some point.
It's literally all just "respect people's stated genders"
Okay, feel free to continue reading. Or not. I'm not your dad.
Everyone gets to be happy! 😌
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R71p94M-z0Y
It captures joy that can never be taken away from.
Wolves can eat things like foxes or lone coyotes that try to eat the sheep, as well as other prey animals that may out-compete grass-eating in their plains (like rabbits, deer, etc) to keep the sheep on top!
As such this remains a purely wholesome hood classic.
*5 minutes later*
1) Shen gets 100s of those comments. Yours isn't gonna be the one to "break through", no need to act like it's a moral imperative
2) generally considered bad form to pester someone not ready to come out
It's literally a PUBLIC FORUM where people have the ability to tell you you're fucking wrong. 🤷♀️
Omg a friend of mine was nagging me to read that book, which I started doing, and then I'm now finding my first Dorly Hall reference here, out in the wild!
Crazy how coincidence works
With how effective the program seems to be. And even if the girls were to know of it, they probably wouldn't care
Totally Dorpilled
Can people stop calling him a egg. It's rude
You only know his comics not his life
They can resonate all they want
I can resonate with a straight persons romantic comics while being a ace and on the aro spectrum
I don't assume the dude is the same as me
slurs aren't the only way to be transphobic
??? this makes very little sense to me in this context
ive always thought that the persistent insistence of an unconfirmed trait in someone, as if they always know better than them, is usually considered rude, regardless if said trait is considered good or bad
This person is trying to pushing things onto Shen and you.
If someone tried to pressure you constantly by saying you (a general you, not *you*) were autistic when you were not actually, its...
ill happily guide someone on their journey with no vague statements, but im not just gonna put em in a box like i know their brain better than them
And a no one is tying shen down n "forcing" HRT on them.
"Society" is an ENDLESS exercise of Cis Indoctrination.
B: No one said that
As do the others.
Shen is an adult he can handle the 'pressure' of people saying 'egg lol'
"hey you can always TRY a different gender for a bit & see if you like it, instead of just HINTING at it all the time"
& not the PRESSURE of society endlessly imposing gender roles based on a glancin at genitals at birth
Idk this comment section is making me question stuff
"shen is definitely totally absolutely Trans"
what is being said is
"holy shit, Shen has expressed a SHITLOAD of gender incongruity related themes... Like approaching F1nn5ter levels... Sooo maybe TRY EXPLORING THAT instead of just HINTING at it all the time"
And you're not acting like a adult
i'm pretty sure it's been made clear by now that you don't know what you're speaking on- so maybe like. do some learning
the only bad part of all of that is your insistance to resist the idea that you could be wrong despite that lack of lived experience :/
He knows of the jokes and doesn't need your whiteknighting, and I don't know how to say this in a less rude way.
I just pointed out a common sense
Like why are you mad that I just said "maybe let's not make assumptions about someone because you think they have done something inherently feminine"
Feels like the weird stuff the right accuse the left of doing and that you are perpetuating the stereotype
Many trans girls wish someone would give them the push of 'you might be a girl'
I agree sometimes it can be overstepping, but why are you agreeing with the Right that being a girl is bad?
My reading is that this is an allusion to people who disavow "cringe" interests... until they try it for themselves.
this is shitposting from a transparent closet
perceived power meets perceived powerless -> realizes that perceived powerlessness can be quite cool actually -> spreads comfort by allowing itself to be powerless and convince others to follow
and now it works as templae for *gestures at everything*
Like, let Shen decide (and declare) for themself. Just because it reads that way for YOU doesn't mean it's what the artist had in mind
I've already said that it definitely is creepy to assume someone is cisgender.
Please stop assuming people's identities and using a perceived double-standard as justification.
Thanks!
Wilzax
People saying "Wow Shen must be an egg with how trans-coded this is!" are who I have a problem with.
And to clarify:
"You might be []" is good.
"Omg this means you're []!" Is bad.
I think your TV is definitely glowing
Although I'm curious to know what would happen if the sheep found out that they were wolves.
Thank you for that, Shen.