This is the critical thing to recognize about the so-called "abundance" agenda and the entire branch of YIMBYism it represents: Its intellectual foundations are fundamentally antidemocratic. It seeks to use the state to impose cultural consensus - and whose culture? Corporate Silicon Valley's. - ThreadSky

jlappen1.bsky.social • 50 days ago

This is the critical thing to recognize about the so-called "abundance" agenda and the entire branch of YIMBYism it represents:

Its intellectual foundations are fundamentally antidemocratic. It seeks to use the state to impose cultural consensus - and whose culture? Corporate Silicon Valley's.

Reposted from New International

Kate Willett (@katewillett.bsky.social) considers the groups funding and promoting the "Abundance" faction in the Democratic Party:

“Both Klein and the Tech Right agree on one thing: democracy interferes with the market’s ability to generate abundance.”

newintermag.com/abundance-bi...

Comments

robinsonmeyer.bsky.social•48 days ago

I am flummoxed by the critique here. In the quoted passage, Klein is contrasting his vision with Andreessen’s, but the author uses this as evidence that Klein is … actually a stalking horse for Andreessen’s vision. Then she contrasts Klein with AOC even though AOC is a YIMBY/backs City of Yes?

riogranderift.bsky.social•48 days ago

Because abundance has deep but distinct roots in both progressive left as well as Tech Right. What roots your argument grows from matters. Klein's grows from Tech Right roots, as reflected in heavy, express reliance on Tech Right-adjacent folks like IFP for critiques of bedrock environmental laws.

riogranderift.bsky.social•48 days ago

He's now frankly spinning his wheels a bit w/contrast to Andreessen, but strikes me he doth protest too much.

riogranderift.bsky.social•48 days ago

One of the reasons I am so frustrated with "Abundance" is that it is a term that, to date, was far more inclusive about what the world could be, including an emphasis on reciprocity with the world around us. Klein's coding it divisively, unless you think the future = centrist/Tech (Right) defined.

sunnydarkgreen.bsky.social•46 days ago

Co-opting the term and repurposing it for the plutocrats ends is half the point of Ezra Kleins book. Same happened with sustainable, clean tech, urban renewal.

robinsonmeyer.bsky.social•48 days ago

I think your roots analogy is a keen one, because it’s precisely this genealogical approach that I think fails us here. The IFP guys and AOC support City of Yes and congestion pricing. Are those laws good or bad? Eventually, we have to get down to the brass tacks of talking about specific policies.

riogranderift.bsky.social•48 days ago

Of course. But the roots do matter. They define what the fruit of the tree (the brass tacks, in your post) will be. And there will of course be alignment, like (at least for me) congestion pricing. But the distinctive roots have also provoked division--e.g., Manchin permitting reform fights.

riogranderift.bsky.social•48 days ago

I mean, the IFP guys expend massive digital ink attacking progressive left climate/environmental priorities with nary a critique of fossil fuels, aligned with 'ecomodern' folks at BTI. Whole shtick involves attacking left w/remarkable silence re: fossil fuels & the Tech Right.

robinsonmeyer.bsky.social•48 days ago

My point is that there’s not much rigor to this genealogical approach — it’s little more than “my team is good, and that team is bad.” That does very well online, but I’m fundamentally unsure it’s going to cut it when it’s time to write actual policy or give instructions to civil servants.

robinsonmeyer.bsky.social•48 days ago

To answer my own question: It obviously doesn’t make AOC an anarcho-capitalist. But the fact that she’s opposed regulations with Ted Cruz — and therefore, according to the author, opposes “democracy” — would seem to invite the same suspicion that she reserves for Klein & Thompson alone.

robinsonmeyer.bsky.social•48 days ago

Here’s my point: The linked post implies that occasionally opposing regulations is the same as being an anarcho-capitalist. Then it champions AOC, who sometimes … opposes regulations! (She’s even pushed the FDA, with Ted Cruz (!), to weaken skincare regs.) Does that make her an anarcho-capitalist?

ilmi.bsky.social•48 days ago

Your roots analogy could be good or bad.
If by roots you mean "shared priors that animate Klein and Andreesen and may lead to bad policies": useful.
If by roots you mean to avoid substantive critique and create guilt by (imposed) association: bad.

jlappen1.bsky.social•48 days ago

I read Klein's quoted comment as an acknowledgement that he and Andreessen are presenting different flavors of the same fundamental ideas - "counterparts" speaking to different audiences. I think the Klein/AOC contrast is really helpful here - they represent the two wings of this movement:

jlappen1.bsky.social•48 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/jlappen1.bsky.social/post/3lmzk5oa2bs2s

jlappen1.bsky.social•48 days ago

Still thinking through different ways to articulate the split I see (and feel - I'd put myself very firmly in the second camp, and very firmly outside the first one).

robinsonmeyer.bsky.social•48 days ago

I think it’s relevant here that Kate Willett, the author of the piece above, hates YIMBYism in its California housing policy-specific context and seems to fundamentally dispute the premise that a housing shortage exists. This is part of why I’m just not sure the genealogical approach serves us here.

jlappen1.bsky.social•48 days ago

Back from meetings and catching up. I don't know Kate Willett, and generally think anchoring this conversation (or pretty much any conversation...) in SF politics as she does obscures far more than it reveals. To get back to your initial point, I want to distinguish two things the article does:

heatpumpsam.bsky.social•46 days ago

She hates active transportation and transit as well and anyone who advocates for it. Fighting to keep the US as sprawled and oil dependent as it is the driving force behind bipartisan support for imperialism in oil rich regions.

heatpumpsam.bsky.social•46 days ago

Ask her (Kate) what she thinks about prop 13 and 100% capital gains tax? If she ignores it then you know she is unserious. She is not in favor of active transportation and thinks if you complain about anti social behavior on transit you are some sort of pro cop fascist.

danrowe.bsky.social•49 days ago

There’s also nothing really new about it. Old late 20th C supplyside liberalism radio shows in new podcast packaging.

jlappen1.bsky.social•49 days ago

I think it was you who called it a Reaganite retread, and that's stuck with me!

danrowe.bsky.social•49 days ago

I can’t remember this, but I am happy to claim it!

jlappen1.bsky.social•49 days ago

If you're interested in understanding these issues, and disentangling the two branches of YIMBYism, fantastic conversation in the replies here:

https://bsky.app/profile/kevinjkircher.com/post/3lmwl3lrmns2k

wendyreed.bsky.social•48 days ago

In the oligarchs' dystopian vision, all resources on the planet will be extracted to expand a vast military and robotics overlord infrastructure. If the planetary ecosystem of earth is to have any chance to survive as we have known it, Americans must stand up to defend her now.

jlappen1.bsky.social•43 days ago

Further to my point: It's valuable to look at who is finding "abundance" a useful tool for reframing their goals - not because of guilt-by-association, but because it helps reveal the work that "abundance" is designed to do.

https://bsky.app/profile/ketanjoshi.co/post/3lngcy3xehk25

bslotterback.bsky.social•48 days ago

What do you call the other branch of YIMBYism, cause honestly I feel like we have a bit of an (online) communication problem.

jlappen1.bsky.social•48 days ago

From my perspective, the two branches are its Abundance branch - deregulatory and aimed at producing More - and a branch we could call Strong Towns or Streets for All, that's focused on reregulating for a more targeted set of goals: transit accessibility, pollution-reduction, community-building.

jlappen1.bsky.social•48 days ago

Obviously there's a ton of overlap - this is a blurry line - but another way to describe it is as a split between the wing of the movement that sees YIMBYism's core policy prescriptions as applicable everywhere, and the wing that sees them as tools to use in certain contexts.

bslotterback.bsky.social•48 days ago

Please not Strong Towns. That has some other baggage/pre-existing usage

jlappen1.bsky.social•48 days ago

Ok, good to know! Not particularly familiar with the group

bslotterback.bsky.social•48 days ago

Alvaro Sanchez uses "Shared Prosperity" https://bsky.app/profile/bslotterback.bsky.social/post/3lmworgdckk23

heatpumpsam.bsky.social•46 days ago

It think the second branch would be pro rent control and pro social or publicly funded housing.

jlappen1.bsky.social•50 days ago

https://prospect.org/culture/books/2025-03-26-abundance-of-credulity-klein-thompson-dunkelman-review/?ref=newintermag.com

jlappen1.bsky.social•42 days ago

This American Prospect article really belongs alongside this pretty surprising admission that the book isn't always all that concerned with the facts!

https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lnivx6646c23

eubanksengineeringresearch.com•48 days ago

Can we stop calling it the “abundance agenda” and start calling it the “company town agenda” or the “runaway climate change agenda” or the “global ecocide agenda”?

Please?

Calling it “abundance” is reinforcing the oppositions framing. Failing Lackoff 101.

grahamiancummins.bsky.social•48 days ago

Many of my coworkers, particularly young ones, think that's fine. It's still surprising for me to hear "we'd be better off with a king" or "we should just force people to do XYZ," but it's no longer uncommon.

jlappen1.bsky.social•48 days ago

Maybe a more common sentiment, but I think probably still super fragile in the face of the actual consequences. Point out those consequences!

grahamiancummins.bsky.social•48 days ago

I hope it is fragile!

maxellxlii.bsky.social•49 days ago

You don’t think exclusionary zoning is undemocratic and is imposing some kind of cultural consensus?

jlappen1.bsky.social•49 days ago

I did not say that, and I am growing very tired of this reflexive response. Please engage with the substance of the point that's being made here before pushing back if you want to discuss. That said, I think it depends on the case. "Exclusionary zoning" is a very broad category.

maxellxlii.bsky.social•49 days ago

Single family zoning

jerrypcdn.bsky.social•46 days ago

Abundance for oligarchs.

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