Little skeptical of a scholar in an economics department applying the eleatic principle to argue that information is nothing but a manner of speech. If you apply the same logic to economics you either end up in a world where inflation is real but information isn’t or get rid of all social kinds - ThreadSky

krysdolega.bsky.social • 13 days ago

Little skeptical of a scholar in an economics department applying the eleatic principle to argue that information is nothing but a manner of speech. If you apply the same logic to economics you either end up in a world where inflation is real but information isn’t or get rid of all social kinds

Reposted from Evan Thompson

"Information is a manner of speaking, nothing more." www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/27...

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conjugateprior.org•13 days ago

"It is merely [...] a very efficient way of speaking" and 'efficiency' certainly has absolutely no causal elements to it...

manolomartinez.net•13 days ago

Anything that supervenes on anything else comes out not real for them, I think. I've only skimmed the paper, but it seemed like a 'physics is enough' kind of thing.

ellia.bsky.social•13 days ago

I’m pretty sure Manzotti is a philosopher/cog scientist by training, yet I agree this doesn’t improve the argument!

krysdolega.bsky.social•13 days ago

Yes, I merely used his affiliation to frame the post

ellia.bsky.social•12 days ago

Yup, I agree with you

richardmoore.bsky.social•13 days ago

I'm pretty sure the same line of argument could also be used to show that money doesn't exist.

keithfrankish.bsky.social•13 days ago

I haven't read the paper yet, but it sounds Dennettian -- which is a good thing in my book!

conjugateprior.org•13 days ago

In mine also. But thus far it doesn't look like it would survive contact with 'Real Patterns', or indeed much of 'The Intentional Stance'.

krysdolega.bsky.social•13 days ago

Exactly! Dan thought information is real. He was very fond of this quote from Wiener:

“Information is information, not matter or energy. No materialism which does not admit this can survive at the present day.”

conjugateprior.org•13 days ago

As a side note one can, informally at least, make a rather nice 'indeterminacy of information' argument using the reference class problem.

krysdolega.bsky.social•13 days ago

Sure, but should that be a reason not to admit information into our ontology?

conjugateprior.org•13 days ago

I am, in Tony Blair's annoyingly useful turn of phrase, intensely relaxed about having things like information, beliefs, biological functions, interest rates, and so on in my ontology.

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