I have Vietnam vet relatives that are MAGA...I can't, for the life of me ,understand how they can consider a 5 time draft dodger ...Commander and Chief
Sometimes... but if you do it well, you're not trying to convince the person with whom you are arguing but rather, the people who are listening. That's always been my philosophy when arguing online.
Yep. I’ll reply with just facts and sources, I know the trumpie won’t ever read it but I’m trying to help those who saw it and were a. On my side but needed a source b. Not sure and a source (trumpies never give one LOL) helps
Ditto, which is why I left the dead bird site pandering to the Dunning-Kruger crowd. No one owns the truth. I'm fine with disagreement as long as it's rational and respectful, but otherwise it's a waste of oxygen. I'm rehearsing my told-you-so dance for when the kakistocracy comes home to roost.
I just call them WILFULLY ignorant low information voters. That makes them rather testy. The vast majority didn't bother to watch the January 6th hearings or read any of the indictments.
I just let them live in their own world, arguing is utterly pointless and this is one of several times that I am not wrong because I don't watch Fox News or listen to Joe Rogan.
Just say “ Bless your heart” and move on- hard to do. I am trying to take current advice and just talk about policy and never ever use the felon’s name
MAGAs are too stupid to realize that their god-king the traitor tRUMP doesn't give a shit about them and will turn on them in a second. They will find out soon enough when prices are driven higher by his asinine massive across the board tariffs.
Don’t argue just vote! Again and again, just wait make America great is going to kneecap our economy and possibly the invited will rise in 26-28 and finally swat away this magat fly
I don’t argue politics either. I don’t actually know how most of the people I associate with voted and I don’t care. We discuss our common interests. With friends that voted differently, we discuss issues and find common ground or we talk about more important things.
I was arguing with this guy. He responded every 1 or 2 minutes. He said it's time to make america great again. I asked him to name 1 time it was ever great. I mentioned things like slavery, how we treat our vets and disabled and elderly, sexism, etc. It has been over a day, no reply.
Some people just have to get their ass kicked to finally learn. Trouble with them is even after said ass-kicking they will STILL be in denial about themselves, their worldview and the people they elect
You've lost. They've won! They are celebrating. At least wait until they feel their guy is screwing them.
In 2024, over 3 million voted 3rd party or independent. Nearly 90 millions (!) did not vote. If you want to talk to anyone, I'd suggest looking at these 2 groups.
Yup. Can hardly w8 until they_all_figure it out. & scream at us who told them so, & got laughed at…& not hear a damn in reply b/c most of us r through wasting r breath.
Um... I've found discussing with some on the Left when my views don't align with them just as futile and exhausting. Let us not allow this site to become an echo chamber. Some difference in opinion is always healthy.
And unless we have conversations with relatively reasonable people with different perspectives, how do we ever get to ask the questions to get their perspectives to shift, even just a tiny bit?
Exactly. I didn't even want to shift anyone's position. I just displayed an opinion that was unpopular on the left. Very sorry if it aligns with some right wingers' and a jury of the person's peer's view.
A conversation of why someone might have found said opinion problematic, with curiosity as to what underpins your reasoning for holding said opinion and being open-minded is important in society. The polarization is making people more entrenched in bigotry.
1) I am a New York City dweller and ride the subways. The subways are usually very safe. Occasionally one encounters crazies. Before JD Vance adopted Daniel Penny, I stated that I agreed with his acquittal.
2) Someone who does not live in NYC disagreed and put forward legal opinions which I thought questionable. She made certain statements and became huffy when I asked for references.
Sadly, the people you're probably referring to aren't the Right. They drove right past the Right and off the cult of personality cliff into the chasm of imminent authoritarianism. There aren't really any audible true Conservative voices anymore 😢
Reason has left the party
They have an answer for everything. Lies aren't lies, they're "alternative facts". The problem is that it isn't just the POTUS elect, that puts them out there. The entire GFP (formerly GOP), follows suit.
The right are not thinking with their own minds. This is exactly what the extreme wants of us. Keep you own mind. Draw your own conclusions and never take criticism from someone you would not seek counsel.
I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. This election has really revealed oddities I've never imagined. In my circles there are extremely good, intelligent, professional people who voted for Trump - not because they like him
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" is sound advice I've seen attributed to both Carlin and Twain.
Agree it is still often a problem. I try to signal open mindedness and not very strong opinons. Like I don’t care. Often they get a bit more flexible. Can’t really expect them to change opinon there and then, but just making them reflect a bit is nice.
They. Want. To. Believe.
They embrace the message of the villains. ground. Their hearts and minds were/are fertile ground. I know that’s true of my sister and others I know.
The crazy part is they assume we’re ignorant, dismiss any facts we present as fake news, and demand sources. If it’s not from Fox News or similar outlets, they consider it a lie and think we’re foolish for believing it—even if the source is an official government agency.
You don't even have to argue- just having a conversation is exhausting. They have so many fruity references to inane stuff, that they've been fed by Faux News. Stuff that is either completely made up and false, or not important, but ridiculous enough to keep them from thinking about actual facts.
Well, reason and logic are out. They believe what they wish to believe, truth and facts be damned. They take pride in being shitty so you can't appeal to their humanity. What do you suggest?
Ignore them as much as possible, they are a vocal minority but still represent a smaller portion of the population no matter what they claim. If you're in the US, help support the Democrat party so they can win the midterms and the next election.
Spread news stories about what Democrats are doing to help people while also sharing news articles about the heinous things Trump and his ilk are doing (this shouldn't be difficult at all given how trash they are). There's no point in trying to change a MAGAts mind,
but centrists generally have a more open mind that can be changed which could give the Democrats victory next time. Also, don't let up on your elected officials to demand hand recounts in swing states, the deadline for that is Dec 20th and there are a few
Don’t argue instead ask them questions about their support or ideals and turn them in circles in till they stump themselves. Show them some fucking perspective. Let them discover it in their own (argument) talking.
Agree. I like to use the term "Learned Ignorance". They have spent thousands of hours "learning" this ignorance, so unfortunately for some it's beyond willful at this point IMO.
Don't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
The difference between ugly ppl & stupid ppl is that ugly people can see it
I'm 60 and have gotten to the point where I'm done with arguing with those who are too blind to see, and that goes for everyone in my life, not just MAGAts. You're either part of the reason I'm seeking peace and joy... Either I feel it around you or I don't, and will remove myself if necessary.
It can be said of any side, really. You’re either preaching to the choir or trying to convert the unconvertible. People will believe what they will, irrespective of what you say. And who am I to say they’re wrong, really? They’ve located their truth and more power to them!
I think it’s possible to talk to both flat earthers and MAGAs. And we should. Just don’t get agitated and get used to talking to them in a calm and respectful manner.
The direction you are pointing in might be key here. And yes, it’s often messy and pointless talking to fanatics, but sometimes it works. Often they will not let you know it works when it does as they might see it as a power struggle as well. It works more often with practice and tecnique.
Good luck to you but, sorry, the "been there, tried it, but no result" occurrences are just too common to me. Don't want to fight the, often intergenerational, wilful ignorance anymore, résistance at every opportunity seem a better path the follow now.
I’m so exhausted from it all I don’t even try to talk to MAGA supporters. There’s nothing to say. All I know is they’ll all rue the day they voted for him!
I was just reading a back and forth and the Dem kept stating facts with numbers and the MAGA kept giving immature cutdowns. So I called her (MAGA) out and her response to me: immature direct cutdowns with zero substance. This is what we’re dealing with here.
I find myself either shutting them down by saying, "I will not discuss politics with you, period," or just grinning at them in silence. Engaging is an exercise in futility, and an undue stressor.
Yes. The willful ignorance and delusion you describe is really a determination to speak insincere, dishonestly, rhetorically. Conservatives, Republicans hate the democratic ethos and follow the Way of the Lie. They communicate only to manipulate, con, grift, trick. Stop interacting with that rot.
“Willful” is the best word to describe it. It takes far more energy to learn “alternative facts” than it does to learn the truth. It’s like they are mentally knitting and creating something ugly with a lot of holes.
I posted on fb that groceries weren't going to be cheap and a Trumper told me to stop. I told her to ignore my posts. She called me immature and in so many words, stupid.
However, when/if they come at me with any of their nonsensical fuckery, I feel no need to spare them. So, I ALWAYS choose violence = I lay waste to their bullshit and feelings
This is a totally valid boundary to set & hold. 👏🏻
My only fear with this approach, however, is exacerbation.
There’s no hope with the indoctrinators - but - we need the indoctrinated to become aware (for their own sake, as well as all of ours, globally).
Correct, you argue like there is a logical brain and quickly figure out logic has gone to play somewhere else 🙄 What convinced me MAGA truly is a cult. So many wasted brains is just sad.
Agree, but you can’t have constructive thoughtful debate with somebody if they don’t believe in base facts because they are so misinformed and disinformed and bought into a cult leader. That’s the rub…
“It’s the price of eggs and gas”they say. Now he says he won’t be able to lower prices and that, in fact, they will rise. Now they say “that’s ok Mr Trump, just keep telling us who to hate”.
Like you I won’t engage.
I especially loathe the "I have an open mind as long as you agree with me" stance these people try to use. Thankfully, most MAGAts aren't smart enough to try this and fall back on "I'm right, f*** you, FREEDOM!!" #BlockWithExtremePrejudice
I, for the most part, did not block Red agitators at that other place. I tried to be polite and let them speak their mind. No more. Second I smell 'em, it's adios
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Blick
That said, I do talk to moderate GOP & LESS rabid Dump voters that I know personally to slowly educate them. (I live in a Deep-South, dark-red state).
https://bsky.app/profile/bobsacemano.bsky.social/post/3lbzndsgpdk2e
In 2024, over 3 million voted 3rd party or independent. Nearly 90 millions (!) did not vote. If you want to talk to anyone, I'd suggest looking at these 2 groups.
Also, no need to waste throwing seeds on rocky ground.
And, yes, anyone who still agrees with the right, at this particular point in time, IS a fascist. No exceptions.
Reason has left the party
The temptation is removed.
Democrats gotta propagandize stat using ReTHUGliKKKan style domestic/foreign tactics to counter GOP nuclear marketing bombs
Obama/Biden pissed off Americans they helped cuz FauKKKsNewsSwamp & MusKKKRats🇺🇸#basta💙
The MAGA meltdown when social security, the ACA and Medicare is cut will be epic!
I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. This election has really revealed oddities I've never imagined. In my circles there are extremely good, intelligent, professional people who voted for Trump - not because they like him
Everything is crazy now
☮☮~"Just Fucking Sayin"~☮☮
They embrace the message of the villains. ground. Their hearts and minds were/are fertile ground. I know that’s true of my sister and others I know.
I hope DonOld attempts to dismantle our government & MAGGGATS hurts HORRIBLY
The difference between ugly ppl & stupid ppl is that ugly people can see it
Happy Sunday ☕
Enjoy the day my friend. 🧑🎄
However, when/if they come at me with any of their nonsensical fuckery, I feel no need to spare them. So, I ALWAYS choose violence = I lay waste to their bullshit and feelings
My only fear with this approach, however, is exacerbation.
There’s no hope with the indoctrinators - but - we need the indoctrinated to become aware (for their own sake, as well as all of ours, globally).
Debating (where possible) on the other hand...
Perhaps it's better to say:
❌ NO
to vile, insulting, abusive behaviour.
✅ YES
to freedom of speech, respectful dialogue and intelligent debate.
Thoughts?
That's why I added, "where possible", in recognition of the valid points you mention.
And they will harass and attack you too if you ever point this out.
Like you I won’t engage.
Your side is nothing special,
Or do u people truly believe only one side behaves that way 😶
I, for the most part, did not block Red agitators at that other place. I tried to be polite and let them speak their mind. No more. Second I smell 'em, it's adios