Probably because at some level they realize that if they acknowledged it they'd be admitting that for politics to change economics would have to change. "It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism".
they have to insist on that or else they'd be forced to confront the fact that their destruction of the real economy is the reason they got their asses handed to them by a reality TV show clown.
Capitalists have spent a lot of money trying to convince people that money isn't a political issue, so we stop thinking it's okay for government to regulate money.
Hell, at this point, they want us to think of money as a spiritual issue.
It's the only thing that does. Most politicians dont care about the people that they represent. only about how much they can make from the companies that buy them.
The same way they tell there’s nothing to learn from our revolution in Portugal 🇵🇹 it’s American history by the way -hot summer 75 “April captain’s” on tubi ✊🏽
Mfs invented a system with literally a magical “invisible hand” baked in as a primary way that the system functions and are surprised when the outcome isn’t always “rational.”
Economics has been treated for too long like a “science” in the sense of physics or chemistry instead of the “social science/humanities” it actually is with billions of people operating within it making emotionally informed decisions on the conscious and unconscious level.
I don’t know why it would be the only thing that affects politics though. And it’s a weird hill to die on because it supposes that if there were injustices, it’s all fine as long as the economy is good. There can be other motivators.
Notice how massive protest movements tend to coincide with bad economies.
The Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street movements started after the 2008 recession, and Black Lives Matter was at its most prominent moment during the 2020 recession.
Almost like poor people are more likely to protest
the keys guy insisting that the economy doing great for billionares means that magically, people would think it's good actually on election day is very this coded
The only ones who ever thought like that were the ones who thought the orange shit did a good job his first term, because he told them over and over again...
People who are supposedly Democrats will look at a headline that goes “The Economy Collapsing Under Trump Can, & Indeed Will, Spark a Profound Backlash Against Right-Wing Politics vs. No It Won’t” and say “I agree with the second guy”
I would love to believe this I genuinely really would but like how many times have we said "this will cause a backlash" and it just hasn't. I don't wanna be a doomer I think change is possible if we try but I don't think the backlash is coming
every time I tried to explain to him that yes it was a bourgeois revolution but their rising economic status and lack of political power was still a material condition he either ignored me or removed my quote. then focused on people who were focusing on the peasants. which are also still relevant
That's what I said. The poor aren't the only people who have material conditions. And he seems to think ideas spread unrelated from material conditions. So then is it ghosts?
It's also very funny to just openly say "I don't know what it was but it wasn't material conditions." I don't think you're arriving at that conclusion empirically lil buddy
Each time, he'd retool his argument to sound like he wasn't *completely* disavowing material conditions when his argument was that no one could have predicted a plane crashing the same way it had already crashed despite no one fixing the cause due to the cost and he kept doubling down on
ignoring material conditions as a way to understand conflicts. He's an idiot, but his problem isn't that he's an idiot. It's that he can't accept being wrong because he's been obsessed with IDEAS for 20 years, and lacks the empathy and perspective to understand how material conditions could ever
God I genuinely still can't believe he said no one could have predicted that plane crash and that it was dumb luck😭😭😭 the fact anyone could take him seriously after that is nuts. He's the equivalent of a mumbling priest, but his shrines are graphs
and the exploited masses realized eventually that hey, actually we didnt get equality and fraternity? and did the whole Paris commune thing. which the bourgeoisie violently suppressed
they are mostly rational though. Those in the ruling class backing Trump are responding to a crisis of the decline of the American empire which has failed to crush Russia in a proxy war, and is now failing to keep pace with China. They are also hedging by seeking to be in the circle of corruption.
this isn't rational to most people bc to most people if we were rich we'd say "i dont give a shit i have billions of dollars im going to go do drugs and fund my passion projects until i die"
being in a circle of corruption lowkey doesnt have much benefit outside of "legacy" that a rational actor
would recognize will at best last like 20 years, since fascist states last like 10 years on average, and then they'll be shit on in history books for hundreds
they'd be better off just doing philanthropy propaganda + doing w/e they want
It is rational for someone playing the game of capitalism to try and seize up government money, be inside the circle of corruption, and do protectionism if they think that business as usual and America's unchallenged superpower status is over.
If they were rational, they'd have continued to back corporatist dems who promised to continue draining Russian resources with secondhand US munitions, and who recently spent vast sums of money to reduce reliance on China and Taiwan for microchips.
The American empire was doing just fine as long as its institutions were intelligently run. It began to falter as soon as policies started being made by fools and saboteurs who did not believe in the basic mission of said empire.
It's the old "I'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven" crowd.
because by the point you have a billion dollars obtaining literally any extra power is essentially worthless in the grand scheme of life, and the power of "legacy" will be invalidated by being a hated stooge to a likely short-lasting, doomed fascist state
Trump backers are definitely seeing Russia as a minor rival that is too expensive to crush and should instead be brought to a neutral or collaborative position so that focus can be brought against their real superpower rival - China
Stancil said that there were other places with more tyranny and wealth inequality, but it's not like the French would've been aware of those other conditions and also so what? People don't like inequality even when they're not literally the worst off in the world.
Has anyone tried telling *him* that? He sure as shit doesn't act like someone who doesn't constantly feel the gnawing hunger for more, more, MOOOOOOOOORRRRREEEEE!!!
I wonder how he would explain the rise of Nazism in the Weimar republic without appeal to material conditions at all? Because one could say material conditions were not primary but he seems to be saying material conditions don’t matter *at all*, which is absurd on its face.
Gives the game away that he's unable to ever engage substantively on the merits, and would rather just strawman the weakest replies he can find. The most damning part is you know he read your replies because he'll hop back in further down to argue with you again
leaving the aside the one specific idiot, the things that many liberals decide are not responsible for politics or elections are absolutely batshit willful ignorance. they'll blame voters but not the electoral system, and they'll blame anything but the economy even when everyone says its the economy
Sadly I’m resigned to the fact our country will continue to bounce between a D admin and an R admin bc when the economy does good ppl vote R but then they tank it so they vote D and that usually fixes it and then they just do this forever and ever probably until I’m dead. Sigh.
Democrats typically get elected right in the middle of an economic crisis, so they shoulder all the blame for it. But Trump just got elected during an economic crisis and he is currently making it 20 times worse and even Wall Street is questioning him
he also fully destroyed all of the mid-century institutions that bolstered American economic strength and democrats have not shown even the slightest hint of any desire to build those kinds of institutions since the 60s.
Oh no, we aren’t having elections in 2026. But Trump’s created the perfect environment for a massive uprising to force him out of power, like what happened in Ukraine in 2013 or South Korea last year.
Republicans are fucked if they don’t drop him immediately, and democrats aren’t too far behind
I think it does, obviously. I also think the perception of economic conditions can also affect politics, and can sometimes be very different from the actual economic conditions.
oooh right, since his whole thing is that the economy is good but the dems lost anyway because everyone thinks that everyone else is doing bad that the economy is bad even though they’re doing great, and he thinks marxism is the belief that people vote correctly according to the truth of the economy
This is why I’m the only one in this field who has been consistent with her beliefs since the outset, now, let me tell you why we as a nation should reconsider throwing gamers into a giant fan
I mean, it’s easier to grift on the right than the left, and people like Wu, or Russell Brand or whoever who get exposed to criticism and don’t really have many core beliefs often find that it’s easier and more profitable to jump ship and hang out with Bari Weiss or Ben Shapiro to escape from that
The wild thing is that this bears out even if you trace it back before video games existed. Somehow everything from the fall of Babylon to the Crimean War? Jiggle physics.
I tell people that economics and politics are the same thing. The same thing!
Government is making decisions: who gets, who pays, who lives, who dies. Deciding where the MONEY goes. And politics is simply deciding who gets to decide.
Tyranny is always mostly or wholly motivated by greed.
The "stancil" debate wore on so long that people just became contrarians; the liberals are annoyed by the socialists so they reject every single thing the socialists say out of spite even when it's true. And honestly the socialists also do this! Stancil's uncontroversial takes get equally shat on
The thing I find really frustrating about Will is that he's like 40% really insightful about how politics and media work and what the best way forward for Dems is and 60% contrarian shithead
Yeah like it isn't *wrong* to say peoples' politics are informed by media and the opinions they receive, but he goes further to say it's *literally the only factor that matters* which is completely stupid
This consequently makes him wrong about current US politics.
If the media people consume was literally the only factor that matters Trump would be the most popular president in history.
Yes, he takes it further by saying "literally only media matters at all" which is wrong and hyperbolic - but the basic statement that public perception can be intentionally influenced by the media is obviously correct
it is but i didn't see anyone disagree with it, just that media is itself produced from the material conditions at hand (bourg society produces bourg media etc) so it's not really a refutation of the point.
ofc there's always some bozo on the internet. alas.
Its equally stupid and wrong to say media and public opinion changes nothing at all and everything is purely a mechanical response to how expensive food is at any given time. That's also stupid! People gotta use dialectics instead of dogma
I know there's always a stupid one in a crowd, but I genuinely don't think I've seen anyone saying this. I've only seen responses like "yeah the media affects beliefs, but the only reason why the media is a negative force is because of the material condition of corporate ownership of most media"
To be fair he has said the solution is to have Dem-aligned media basically just run 24/7 propaganda. Which... that's not a *good* solution but it is his solution!
He was probably at least trying to self-moderate since whenever he decided he wanted to run for office but after it didn't work out he's evidently given that up.
The broad swath of leftist posters in the political subforums have slowly been closing in on likely Stancil suspects over the years based on who posts the same obtuse shit in the same annoyingly self satisfied manner, and a number of folks have their money on SA user Thorn Wishes Talon.
I think people view politics as largely ideological, and not about POLICY. But while economic class might not dictate your ideology, policy absolutely and inherently affects your economic condition, whether you engage in the process or not.
One of the things I hate most about the trumpification of politics in the US is that there is now an ever growing number of people who revel in their disingenuous arguments and willful ignorance...
It’s an overreaction, but there is a reason for it: economic conditions did not affect the 2024 election (perceptions of it did, but not the reality of it).
This is all just downstream of the “vibecession debate”.
we have learned that economic sentiment is more vibe-based than we thought but that doesn’t mean economic conditions don’t have an effect! also it’s harder to deny negative economic conditions than it is to gaslight people about positive economic conditions
I've been dealing with the inverse still. People that claim it shouldn't bring politics into everything and I'm like, this admin wants to make you homeless, tf???
Comments
Hell, at this point, they want us to think of money as a spiritual issue.
He loves a chart
The Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street movements started after the 2008 recession, and Black Lives Matter was at its most prominent moment during the 2020 recession.
Almost like poor people are more likely to protest
#maga
It's called brainwashing, the dead brains.
Stancil-ism is a straight up rejection of empiricism, he’s walking back The Enlightenment, dog
>surprised people at the top aren't rational
being in a circle of corruption lowkey doesnt have much benefit outside of "legacy" that a rational actor
they'd be better off just doing philanthropy propaganda + doing w/e they want
It's the old "I'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven" crowd.
It doesn't matter to these people if there is absolute decline if their relative position still improves.
because by the point you have a billion dollars obtaining literally any extra power is essentially worthless in the grand scheme of life, and the power of "legacy" will be invalidated by being a hated stooge to a likely short-lasting, doomed fascist state
You wouldn't leave your keys in your unlocked car unattended around a meth head
Gives the game away that he's unable to ever engage substantively on the merits, and would rather just strawman the weakest replies he can find. The most damning part is you know he read your replies because he'll hop back in further down to argue with you again
gottem
Democrats typically get elected right in the middle of an economic crisis, so they shoulder all the blame for it. But Trump just got elected during an economic crisis and he is currently making it 20 times worse and even Wall Street is questioning him
We’re pretty fucked.
Republicans are fucked if they don’t drop him immediately, and democrats aren’t too far behind
Government is making decisions: who gets, who pays, who lives, who dies. Deciding where the MONEY goes. And politics is simply deciding who gets to decide.
Tyranny is always mostly or wholly motivated by greed.
If the media people consume was literally the only factor that matters Trump would be the most popular president in history.
ofc there's always some bozo on the internet. alas.
When socialists say “material conditions caused this” they’re saying “hey, let’s improve material conditions and maybe we can fix this”
When stancil says “media caused this”, is he suggesting we guillotine Joe Rogan? No
dude could just have a lot of sock puppets
(Oh, the ‘stupid’ part, there’s the kicker).
This is all just downstream of the “vibecession debate”.
It seems worthy of note the stock market decline is the first thing that made the fascist terrorist GOP wall crack.
They have no objection to terrorising women, children, POC, the disabled, the neurodivergent, LGBTQ+ people, none at all.
Just as long as you don't torpedo their finances.