This isn’t just in coal mines, of course—it still happens today in all kinds of confined industrial spaces, caves, anywhere with bad air. There’s two basic ways that this cycle gets broken—line of sight and training. - ThreadSky

tkingfisher.com • 2 days ago

This isn’t just in coal mines, of course—it still happens today in all kinds of confined industrial spaces, caves, anywhere with bad air.

There’s two basic ways that this cycle gets broken—line of sight and training.

Comments

hadespuppy.bsky.social•2 days ago

Like that one hole in Africa where divers keep dying and then other divers die trying to retrieve their bodies.

goodnightmuwun.bsky.social•2 days ago

I used to work at a library in California wine country and while doing historical research came across a number of death records for people who suffocated in the giant casks used to age wine, usually while they were cleaning them.

blatherscribe.bsky.social•2 days ago

Thank you for mentioning other spaces. That's how my great-grandfather died. He was a baker. The gas ovens leaked. A gas embolism got him, like turning off a light switch, between one footfall and the next. "Beware of invisible gases" was an early childhood lesson for me.

numenor.reunitedkingdoms.net•8 hours ago

My great uncle (a dairyman) fell into a dry well in which he had been aging cheese. He and the first would-be rescuer both suffocated before a telephone lineman arrived and said “get me a rope.” The phone company gave him a medal, iirc.

pureferret.bsky.social•2 days ago

Like rooms full of the chains of a ships anchor

mayansanity.bsky.social•1 day ago

They call that room the "Chain Locker"

tkingfisher.com•2 days ago

Line of sight (not the technical term, I don’t know if there is one) is just that your brain sees one body and rushes to help, but if it sees a PILE of bodies, other switches get flipped that tell you Bad Shit Went Down and a lot of overrides kick in and you think “Maybe I should get help.”

tkingfisher.com•2 days ago

Unfortunately in coal mines, in the dark, particularly with steep shafts and squeezes, maybe you don’t SEE the pile, and…well…look, a lot of really bad shit happens in the world and this is some of the bleakest because it’s like the world weaponizes heroism against you.

mjaum.bsky.social•2 days ago

Yah. The heroism really needs to come *before* the inevitable accidents. Freely accessible labour unions is a good start. (Am socialist. Am not sorry!)

aetherograph.bsky.social•1 day ago

Stricter OSHA regulations and more funding so OSHA can enforce them too. I also say this about ADA requirements; buildings should not get excepted bc "they're so old" either bc that means whole regions of the country are now extremely dangerous (hi i live in the northeast and can't stairs)

tkingfisher.com•2 days ago

The other way to break this is training. You see a person fall down and go “I have to grab them—wait, shit, they told me about this! No! Don’t do that!”

The problem is that training is up against wiring. To really work, you need the kind of training that is hammered in so hard it overrides nature.

stephenblackmoore.com•2 days ago

Years ago I did theater lighting on a 1940s lightboard prone to sudden electrical flare-ups. First thing everyone was taught was DO NOT grab anyone they saw getting zapped.

We had a baseball bat to gently* coax them away from the board. Got lucky. Only one close call.

*hit them really fucking hard

stephenblackmoore.com•2 days ago

So many arguments to get across that trying to help the way they instinctively wanted to help was just going to get them killed.

kaiavintr.bsky.social•2 days ago

I have to wonder about the person who proposed the baseball bat as the solution. Didn't anything finally click in anyone's brain when they saw that?

miriparhelion.bsky.social•1 day ago

It's not to brandish at anyone who gets too close! The baseball bat (I assume it's wood) is to knock someone who's stuck because they're being shocked away from the electrical current without the current traveling into you as well.

9carol3.bsky.social•1 day ago

... such as military training.

tkingfisher.com•2 days ago

And to be clear, these miners were not stupid or ignorant. They knew things about mine gas that you and I sitting above ground never ever will. They knew what they were up against. But still, a lot of times, they saw their friend choke and rushed to help because that is just what you DO.

sfkissinger.bsky.social•2 days ago

And even if you survive without encountering poisonous gases, there are cheerful little long-term effects like Black Lung.

pete23.com•2 days ago

On the upside you just reminded me it’s been a few years since I listened to Black Lung! (TW: anti-smoking hypnotoad) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L60djxwRURg

tkingfisher.com•2 days ago

So first of all, I say this so that in the unlikely event you someday see Uncle Bob walk into the old root cellar or the abandoned cave or whatever, get woozy and fall down, that you maybe start to rush after him and then think “hang on, weird author, mine gas, pile of bodies, SOMEONE GET A ROPE.”

anangryscientist.bsky.social•2 days ago

I work for a major corporation that operates large reactors and has rules that get put up on posters and re-iterated every year. Whether you’re in an office or a sales rep, you get reminded to test the air before entering an enclosed space; no repeats, at least.

stevebuchheit.bsky.social•2 days ago

Was at the National Aviary (Pittsburgh) a few weeks ago and they have some domestic canaries, so as we were in front of one of their cages and the canary is singing up a storm 2 patrons were asking each other, over the singing, why miners would use them over, say, a pigeon. “No idea,” I said loudly.

cookhe.bsky.social•2 days ago

I'm from an agricultural state, and aside from silos, another confined space death trap was manure pits. 🐷

johnpmurphy.bsky.social•2 days ago

Not just gasses from underground there- iirc rotting potatoes can off gas enough in an enclosed space to kill you. I read one story relatively recently of a whole family that died one after the other going into the root cellar. And big steel tanks can pull all the O2 out of the air when they rust.

wolfenred.bsky.social•2 days ago

I’m pretty sure Cherie Priest could add to the conversation.

tkingfisher.com•2 days ago

Second, the absolute best way to prevent a disaster is BEFORE it happens, so do not, under any circumstances, take shortcuts with safety precautions if you’re working in an enclosed space, because you’re not just risking yourself, you’re risking a bunch of people who try to save your ass.

jlkaufmann.bsky.social•2 days ago

Growing up among farmers we had the Cautionary Tale Of The Idiot Who Went To Open Up The Silage Tank Alone And Without A Rope Tied Around His Waist.

silence042.bsky.social•2 days ago

I saw someone on reddit doing calculations on how quickly a room would lose oxygen due to rust on an anchor chain…. We really don’t appreciate the thin margins our biological systems operate in sometimes.

bunnyjadwiga.bsky.social•2 days ago

This is a perfect metaphor for those lingering distasters in voluntary organizations that undergo serial burnout, too.

caraeilis.bsky.social•1 day ago

Happened to a farming family near me with a slurry tank. Son went in after dog. Other son and dad went in after son. Daughter pulled out her dad but then also passed out. She survived, the three men and the dog died. She said at the inquest she was aware of the danger but it was family.

glyndwr-michael.bsky.social•2 days ago

Same goes for when you think someone is being electrocuted. If you grab someone who is carrying a high electrical current, your muscles contract and you can't let go and will also perish. Use a rope, wooden pole, etc.

thornsilver.bsky.social•1 day ago

I learned new things today.

amulderwrites.bsky.social•2 days ago

*abruptly remembers my father recounting this happening to some people inspecting a corn silo and ooooooof it went so bad*

Heughhhhh

laura-adrian.bsky.social•2 days ago

Confusion is a symptom of carbon monoxide poisoning. If somebody is only a little affected, they don’t keel over…but they don’t think clearly either.

pradlin.bsky.social•2 days ago

This has been an excellent metaphor. Thank you.

kevinrsours.bsky.social•1 day ago

One thing I would add is that there are surprisingly few context clues. No bad smells. Or caustic feel. Or nausea. In many cases the first clue you have that something is wrong is when you pass out. And the person you observe might not be choking or clawing at the error so much as they fall over.

kevinrsours.bsky.social•1 day ago

None of which triggers a "the environment is bad" mental response so much as "person has medical emergency and needs assistance". I don't know anything about coal mines but in my wife's line of work nitrogen gas is a carefully flagged hazard.

appalbarry.com•2 days ago

Living in Appalachian Kentucky, where pretty much every banjo player was ex coal-miner, was an education. I've done my share of tough jobs, but you would never get me down one of those holes. /1

appalbarry.com•2 days ago

I am in awe of those guys, and when someone arrived at our community radio to make a donation, and apologized for being dirty because they just got off work, you can be sure that I shook their hand.,

anisekstrong.bsky.social•18 hours ago

A friend of mine once had the job of designing a simulation game for emergency responders to train them to stick to the triage rules _even if there were many children involved, only some of whom were grievously injured._ Human instinct is "save the kids!" even if the 50YO needs more urgent help.

lasrina.bsky.social•2 days ago

Mm yeah, I remember learning from a first responder that the first thing they have to teach is "Make sure you are not about to become the next person in need of rescuing."

purplehel.bsky.social•2 days ago

Apparently at some point in the last 43 years, I read something that included the chant 'back the fuck up and go get help' in reference to such incidents, and it stuck. I don't remember the book, or even fiction/non, but I remember the chant and that it's about seeing someone down in a mine.

karidru.bsky.social•2 days ago

Have you played Scarlet Hollow cuz you just reminded me of it and I think you might like it if you have not.

brewergnome.bsky.social•2 days ago

It’s actually a big part of training Army Medics too. For similar reasons.

finnanhaddie.bsky.social•2 days ago

Also included in first aid training: stop first & assess the situation to determine whether it’s safe to proceed & render aid

sethanikeem.bsky.social•2 days ago

Makes me think of this bit of Cleveland history:

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/736

amulderwrites.bsky.social•2 days ago

This thread is going to have me thinking about that Trapped Under the Sea engineering disaster book again aaaall afternoon, huh.

trickofthelight.bsky.social•2 days ago

um is it just called that because it sounds amazing and I'm looking it up right now

amulderwrites.bsky.social•2 days ago

Oh sorry, the subheading is even better. Or, er. Worse.

TRAPPED UNDER THE SEA: One Engineering Marvel, Five Men, and a Disaster Ten Miles Into the Darkness, by Neil Swidey.

It was a Memorable read if you go in for "Oh my God so many people should have stopped this from getting to that point."

trickofthelight.bsky.social•2 days ago

Hell yeah library audiobook

amulderwrites.bsky.social•2 days ago

Wow a mood *as I put a hold on your rec*

trickofthelight.bsky.social•1 day ago

I just fell asleep listening to the first chapter (not out of boredom, was just really tired) and I'm sure I won't have deep in the ocean nightmares from putting that directly into my subconscious.

trickofthelight.bsky.social•2 days ago

I will trade you with a recommendation for Blind Descent: The Quest to Discover the Deepest Place on Earth

amulderwrites.bsky.social•2 days ago

*looks up, grinning at cover* oooOoooOoh! * V *

trickofthelight.bsky.social•2 days ago

Will I ever forget the way it discussed light being a nonrenewable resource? NOPE. HAUNTS MY DREAMS.

amulderwrites.bsky.social•2 days ago

*bumps it several notches up the To Read list already* This sounds Fascinating.

pnxnotded.bsky.social•1 day ago

This reminds me of the incident a few years ago in Chicago where a tourist dropped their phone on the ice in the river. When they tried to get it back they fell in. Then their friend went out to help and fell through. Then a third friend went out. I believe two, if not all three, of them died.

tkingfisher.com•1 day ago

Oof

grimbitchpaige.bsky.social•7 hours ago

There was a case of several people dying in a theme park like this except it wasn't gas. Someone went into a fountain and it turned out the pump was leaking current into the fountain. Guy goes down, someone runs to to save him, goes down, next person runs in goes down. 2 of 3 drowned iirc.

brucearthursaz.bsky.social•2 days ago

Yep. I recall several local instances in the past when someone working in a large storage tank was overcome by fumes, and the person who tried to come to his aid ended up dead as well.

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