christopherpoore.bsky.social
Episcopal priest. PhD student in theology at UChicago Divinity School. Bringing Anglican texts back to life: editor of Seminary Street Press and VTS Press.
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I think it's going to be a great time!
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Yes! The best I have been able to trace down this saying, it seems to come from O. Clément, "Taizé, un sens à la vie," Service Orthodoxe de Pressse (SOP), July-August 1997, no. 220, p. 37. Or at least, that is the citation on pg. 65 of this book: www.google.com/books/editio...
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Very impressed that you've thrown yourself into the fray. The peace of the Lord be always with you!
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Technically that second screenshot is a quote from Walter Rawley's History of the World. Laud wanted to use it in his defense.
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Amen to that!
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Hey! Thank you for giving it a read.
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Hey! Thank you! I'm glad it hit home.
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Yes, it is incredible! God loves even melancholics. Who would believe it? I was listening to Pope Francis's memoir last night and burst out laughing when he described himself as a melancholic partial to the poetry of Verlaine. His favorite lines? "The long sighs of violins in autumn wound my heart."
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Thank you, friend, for sharing! So grateful!
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Yes! That's who I had in mind.
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Fortunately, I have found much to love in the Episcopal Church, much more than I could either desire or deserve, and I grow more and more thankful for its witness by the day. In the lives of its people, I have seen that it is possible to become a saint here. What else could I desire?
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I hate talking east and west as if they're totally separate, but just to run with it a little:
If the East protects themselves from history through mythology, certainly the West protects itself from revelation through... criticism.
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Yeah, I mean it's not the position of Prots or certainly of Barth, but the EO are just way more comfortable with the church, its councils and its liturgy being an ongoing form of revelation.
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Basically this.
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Yes, I think that this is the path that the now-defunct Society of Eastern Rite Anglicanism was trying to follow. But I mean, "Rite III" is sufficiently broad to only require a slight edit to St Basil or St Chrysostom when it comes to the words of institution, as I recall?
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Yes, and especially if an intact Eastern Rite church wanted to leave Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism, there is canonical provision for them to retain their rite in full. I believe the Episcopal Bishop of Colorado recently received one such community.
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Yes, I guess I wanted the Episcopal liturgy to have an integrity + solidity that it just isn't interested in having at the moment. I didn't want St Basil or St Chrysostom's litany tinker-toyed in. But! TEC is pursuing other virtues at the moment, and it is sometimes a grace to not get what you want.
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So much so that attempts at liturgical obedience still become a form of tinkering and preference. The current liturgical paradigm is that totalizing.
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Yes to fascimile in this sense! Orthodox liturgical spirituality begins and ends in obedience, in the open-hearted reception of what is given. As St Pavel Florensky says: the Liturgy was not made, it was given. Western Liturgy currently begins and ends with constant tinkering, editing, etc....
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I mean on the one hand, yes, love Prayer D. On the other, it is not really at all like the Liturgy of St Basil? It was cold comfort to me coming into TEC. Like saving a little piece of chipped kitchen tile from a house that has burned down. Glad that it no longer feels so terrible!
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I would say, if it is ever to be done, it should respect the integrity of the rite and offer refuge to those cast out. Not a facsimile but an émigré orthodoxy?
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A friend of mine and I talk about trying to do an Eastern Rite thing here in Chicago with ELCA and Episcopalians. Just a dream at the moment.
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I can believe it.
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So true: they were very committed to defending a certain ecclesiology. I was recently skimming around in Gore's book on church and ministry. I had not realized that he was of the opinion that non-episcopal churches are not true churches.
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Charles Gore and Percy Dearmer are looking down from heaven and they are just so proud, so proud. Keep up the good work.
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Nice to see the Prayer Book catholics out and about this morning!
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Interesting! Reminds me that many AC rectors were very excited about liturgical reform. I know that at both Ascension and K Street there were shifts in the 60s and 70s (presiding from the sedelia, some versus populum). Obedience to Rome or to their own bishops—certainly a kind of catholic reasoning.
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No apologies necessary! These liturgical shifts are fascinating to track. So much liturgical memory can be lost in a rector transition! Prayers ascending for HC, Charleston.
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I am at Ascension now, but we don't have a full missal mass, directly out of one of the missals (no secret, postcommunion). We use Rite II 79 BCP with chanted Latin propers. I believe there was a shift just before I started attending as a lay person in 2018. I was told, "we used to be rite I."
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Say what??? Wish I was there to see it. Even in all the time I've been in AC parishes in the Episcopal Church, I've never seen a missal Mass with all the propers.
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Oh gosh, wish I could have been there for that scene.
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What honestly did it for me was reading his interviews in the Conversations volume. He is just hilarious! Obviously did not get everything right, but he knows it and would like you to go ahead and write your own dogmatics. Very inspiring! Not that I'm trying to induce a Barthian shift for you lol
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Nice!
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Hey! Me too!
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Not your guy, huh?
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When you know who you are, you don't need a quiz! Praise God!