There are still a few weeks left in the year (though December is generally a quiet month for book proposals), but it looks like I’m going to close out 2024 with around 80% of total book proposals coming from men, 18% from women, and 2% from persons whose gender was not apparent/obvious. - ThreadSky | a Reddit-style client for Bluesky

davulis.bsky.social • 87 days ago

There are still a few weeks left in the year (though December is generally a quiet month for book proposals), but it looks like I’m going to close out 2024 with around 80% of total book proposals coming from men, 18% from women, and 2% from persons whose gender was not apparent/obvious.

Comments

aabastian.com•87 days ago

I’ve been submitting a very serious book proposal to agents and publishers that I’ve worked on for 12 years now. People aren’t taking it seriously. I just had an agent call it “fiction”.

Since I’ve been published in a peer-reviewed academic journal for this primary source, I’m beside myself.

aabastian.com•87 days ago

Yeah. My path is different—largely because I’m a woman—but it’s a serious and solid project.

I’m so discouraged I’m in give up mode right now.

So to add to the conversation—is it possible that women get more bullied out of projects, too?? (In addition to not putting themselves out there.)

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I would say—gently— that agents and publishers turning you down isn’t bullying (unless they’re being assholes about it.) MOST book proposals get turned down. I’ve turned down books that went on to be very successful elsewhere. Almost every book you see on amzn or at BN was turned down by someone.

aabastian.com•87 days ago

Right. I’ve been at this a while. I actually have much worse stories of bullying than this one. Calling it “fiction” when it is clearly marked as nonfiction, to me, is either a sign they didn’t read it, or they’re being dismissive.

aabastian.com•87 days ago

An agent screaming at me “you’re nobody, you’re nothing” over the phone so I would pay her $9000 to get published instead of looking for a publisher—-that’s what I call bullying.

And it’s only one example. Just don’t want to be so public about all the real examples on social media.

aabastian.com•87 days ago

And the assumption from everyone that it must be my work that’s the problem only makes it more discouraging to submit.

What if it’s not my work that’s the problem. That it actually is nonfiction…

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

An agent who asks you for money is a scammer. (And this one is an asshole, also.) 100% a scam. Best source on this is a website called Writer Beware. Please, please check it out.

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

If they’re not reading it closely enough to understand what kind of book it is, you don’t want them as your agent. (They may be a very good agent for other books/genres, but they won’t be for yours.) An agent who doesn’t get your book can’t sell your book.

aabastian.com•87 days ago

Yes. None of the agents are the right fit.

I get it.

ron-1952.bsky.social•86 days ago

Very true. I became discouraged but kept submitting until a Canadian press grabbed me. My ruby slippers must have helped.

janetdonavan.bsky.social•86 days ago

Thanks for sharing this. I am working on a book and this has made me a little less scared to reach out with a proposal. Not quite ready yet, but will be in 2025.

tomlynch.bsky.social•86 days ago

This thread is an example of why people are moving to Bluesky. I can't recall the last time I came across a thoughtful thread/discussion on Twitter. Thanks to everyone.
We all need to care for this environment to maintain it.

jmadelman.bsky.social•87 days ago

Would love to hear more — do you have any sense from the perspective of your desk about ways to help change that ratio? (I know you can’t change the inequitable distribution of service among academics, for example.)

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I… just don’t know, at this point. I DO get the sense (I can’t quantify this, so this is a true gut instinct thing) that men tend to submit to multiple publishers more often than women do. If I’m right about that, then maybe this matters less than we think, for the overall book ecosystem. But idk!

jmadelman.bsky.social•87 days ago

I do recall seeing something from a journal editor a little while ago that men submitted more but the quality of work from women was much higher overall (or to put it another way, men are much more willing to submit something even if it’s crappy).

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I think there may be some truth to this, though I would characterize it a little differently: of the folks who are willing to submit something unpolished, very few are women. (But most people aren’t, at least not for books. Journals might be different.)

atrubek.bsky.social•87 days ago

Men submit more, period.

kleonardphd.bsky.social•86 days ago

Oof.

emilybookinson.bsky.social•86 days ago

Do you think contingency plays into it? Are women more likely to be adjuncts/leave higher ed in your field? Books are wonderful, but you generally can’t eat them.

davulis.bsky.social•86 days ago

Maybe? I haven’t seen data on this, but this strikes me as plausible. And yes, totally understand why a book is not the priority for those folks.

francoisegirard.bsky.social•87 days ago

That’s telling… I’ve also been noting how many more letters to the editor men write to the NYTimes. Women are just too stretched 🤯

cutebrute.bsky.social•86 days ago

My mother forbade my father from writing them, otherwise he’d be pumping out 2 per day at least.

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

Yes, I think stretched-thin-edness is a huge part of it, which is why I’m reluctant to offer advice about the issue

esylviapoet.bsky.social•87 days ago

And are 80% of that 80% about WWII, men's favorite historical moment?

cutebrute.bsky.social•86 days ago

Don’t forget Ancient Rome.

catfrat.bsky.social•87 days ago

I thought men’s favorite historical moment was the Roman Empire

xiphosb4.bsky.social•87 days ago

Hard to call that a "moment".

catfrat.bsky.social•87 days ago

Hard to call WWII a “moment” then. I think a true “moment” would be something violent and brief but that creates a schism or a clear before and after, like 9/11

xiphosb4.bsky.social•87 days ago

Fair enough.

xiphosb4.bsky.social•87 days ago

Comparatively, WWII was a "moment".

xiphosb4.bsky.social•87 days ago

Even if you only counted the unified imperial era, that's ~100X the duration of the second world war.

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I’ll add a “WWII?” column to my 2025 tracking spreadsheet. 🤣

esylviapoet.bsky.social•87 days ago

😆 This is the research we need

arthearthistory.bsky.social•87 days ago

Recalling my recent visit to the Brontë parsonage, how can you tell that some of those men aren't really women and some of the women aren't really men? And does it matter anyway? Shouldn't the voice and story be all that counts?
🤔

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

Shouldn’t an academic publisher’s list more-or-less reflect the field, which is less than 80% male?

arthearthistory.bsky.social•87 days ago

Ah, so you're talking about facts not fiction. My bad. I missed that ... I'll delete if you want. ... Though having worked with a lot of professors and curators, it doesn't surprise me. The women are far less certain that they've drunk from the fountain of wisdom than the men are. Which is a relief!

anthropunk.bsky.social•86 days ago

Would you please follow me for DM?

msatris.bsky.social•87 days ago

I once heard an interview with a talk show host, who said that in order to get 50/50 gender parity in his guests, he had to reach out to twice as many women as men. The men presented themselves, but they had to really actively find women. I've kept that in mind ever since!

msatris.bsky.social•87 days ago

I remember that he said they struggled with booking women for a couple reasons. 1) there would be like the one stand out woman in the field, and she would be overbooked, 2) other women had more competing obligations, and 3) the whole women don't have the confidence of a mediocre white man problem

bobbyboy60.bsky.social•87 days ago

What kinda books do the best now

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

That Taylor Swift thing that just came out

bobbyboy60.bsky.social•87 days ago

Laura i assume you work for a publisher

andrewlea.bsky.social•86 days ago

Wow, thanks for sharing! Is this better, worse, or roughly stable from the prior years you've tracked?

actualkatherine.bsky.social•87 days ago

Oh my god???????

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

Yep. This is a little on the high end for % male, but not atypical. I’ve been tracking this since 2018. (And standard disclaimer that I’m inferring gender from pronoun usage, name, sometimes photo; I don’t ask people to self-report.)

clancyny.bsky.social•87 days ago

Hi! Can you say if this gender breakdown seems to be similar to pre-pandemic percentages? Or not really?

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I do have the data to answer this more precisely but can’t do so right now. Off the top of my head, I think it’s a little higher but not drastically so.

clancyny.bsky.social•87 days ago

Close enough! Thank you! 🙏🏼

margoncalves.bsky.social•86 days ago

Can I ask if you started tracking this by your own initiative (and diligence) or in 2018 JHU decided it was a good idea to collect these data across different fields?

davulis.bsky.social•86 days ago

Being able to track this is a happy (or not) side effect of logging all my submissions in a spreadsheet, which I do for general organization/chaos-reduction reasons. It’s not a general JHUP initiative.

melanieconklin.bsky.social•87 days ago

Daaaaaaang

drkarenlcox.bsky.social•86 days ago

I'd be interesting in knowing if this tracks with other uni presses.

davulis.bsky.social•86 days ago

I have only anecdata from talking to other editors whose acquisitions overlap mine, and as far as that goes, the answer is some, but not all, also see this pattern.

crtcltheology.bsky.social•87 days ago

The editor of the journal of the American academy of religion noted that as soon as Covid hit, submissions from women dropped to zero. There has been a slight rise but I have also seen this drop mentioned in other fields. Is anybody tracking if women scholars are experiencing increased care loads?

sarahlidwelldurnin.bsky.social•86 days ago

What is the gender divide when it boils down to *realistic* book proposals? Is it the same? Only because I’ve noticed men are more likely to take a punt on something slightly unhinged (same for job applications) or not thought through, whereas women often overcorrect for “ready”?

davulis.bsky.social•86 days ago

Good question. There are so many variables that influence the process between an author hitting send on a proposal and me sending a contract for signature, and so many of those variables are 100% invisible to the author, that I’m hesitant to draw any conclusions there.

guprofbc.bsky.social•87 days ago

ARE YOU SERIOUS

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

My fancy spreadsheet that I taught myself pivot tables in order to build does not lie, I’m afraid

guprofbc.bsky.social•87 days ago

Maybe it's because we are all in office hours & on committees.

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I don’t doubt it!

kiwiline.bsky.social•87 days ago

This is fascinating, depressing and inspiring all at once.

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

That’s my personal brand, basically.

mcintold.bsky.social•86 days ago

And yet, my book proposal was rejected or ghosted from all university presses. Perhaps it is because I’m not at a university anymore (but still very much writing for the academic space)? Or is there another reason?

aerynthrace.bsky.social•86 days ago

Dm me. I might be able to help.

hughshanahan.bsky.social•86 days ago

😟

clancyny.bsky.social•87 days ago

@jesscalarco.bsky.social Hmm. Who has the energy and space and perhaps encouragement, or in same cases, a sense of self-importance, to create and submit book proposals to a university press?

ceceliacancellaro.bsky.social•87 days ago

Wow. I don't have precise stats on my proposal submissions but anecdotally this rings true. Are these all in the unsolicited category or are they also proposals you've invited?

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

It’s anything that lands in my inbox with enough material to evaluate it. Transom, agents, translation/rights pitches, invited submissions, referrals from whoever.

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I should note that this does not necessarily imply that 80% of our published books are authored by men. I’m talking here only about book proposals that land in my inbox at the rate of approximately 1 per workday.

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I’m kind of wary of telling women (and nonbinary people) to do more stuff because I am also a woman and I understand being existentially tired, but: if you are going back and forth on whether to reach out to a publisher, you should go ahead and do it. Judging from the numbers, the dudes are!

anthropunk.bsky.social•83 days ago

I asked you to folliw please for DM here...May I please ask you a question there?

actualkatherine.bsky.social•87 days ago

Hey @franrbell.bsky.social 🙂

franrbell.bsky.social•87 days ago

🫡

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

I get that this often feels awkward and uncomfortable. I cannot stress this enough: every editor knows this and doesn’t care if you sound like a weirdo, as long as you’re a reasonably polite and non-creepy weirdo.

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

Like, I’m sorry if you think you’re the weirdest weirdo out there but you are not, you should try working in book publishing sometime if you wanna see some real freaks

davulis.bsky.social•87 days ago

To any current or former coworkers reading this, I think you are great! You’re all weirdos, but charmingly so.

mathildamoo.bsky.social•86 days ago

Rest in peace, your inbox

jenkat57.bsky.social•87 days ago

Cover that ass.