I think most people would agree that sports betting and online gambling are predatory industries, but the problem becomes "deproblematized" when we these industries prey on young men, because we have decided that this group is somehow exempt from predation. - ThreadSky

kevinbaker.bsky.social • 7 days ago

I think most people would agree that sports betting and online gambling are predatory industries, but the problem becomes "deproblematized" when we these industries prey on young men, because we have decided that this group is somehow exempt from predation.

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feliciahart.bsky.social•7 days ago

Who is this we?

brocktoon.bsky.social•7 days ago

Youre going to get a lot of "who gives a shit about young men they deserve it" replies, and God speed to you, but this is absolutely correct. Even if it's just raw self interest it's everyone's problem now.

feliciahart.bsky.social•7 days ago

Haven't seen one.

brocktoon.bsky.social•7 days ago

ok!

worstplace.bsky.social•7 days ago

Not going to say that, but if I'm understanding him correctly he has it backwards. There's only a crisis because the predation is happening to young white men in large enough numbers to move the needle. Many past examples!

brocktoon.bsky.social•7 days ago

It was everyone's problem in the past examples too!

worstplace.bsky.social•7 days ago

Hey, that's my point!

kevinbaker.bsky.social•7 days ago

I am more than happy for people to provide examples that illustrate the process.

feliciahart.bsky.social•7 days ago

And yet people aren't because that's not really what's happening, is it?

kevinbaker.bsky.social•7 days ago

You really seem to want me to be saying something that I am not.

feliciahart.bsky.social•7 days ago

I don't want you to. I asked clarifying questions and got no answers but I saw your other replies here.

mezentine.bsky.social•7 days ago

I broadly agree with this, but I think there are two things that make it thorny. The first is that men in general still control most institutions of power that could address the issues, and so I think a lot of people traditionally outside those institutions are understandably exasperated.

mezentine.bsky.social•7 days ago

While this is a crisis facing young men broadly the "face" of the issue is almost universally presented young straight white boys in crisis and I'm not surprised that there are Black people, or women, or trans people, who's reaction is "I can't even advance my own needs, now I have to fix yours?"

mezentine.bsky.social•7 days ago

So thing number 1 is: who is being called on to act? And are they the same as the people with the power to act? I think underlying a lot of this is a deep powerlessness that many people feel towards their ability to affect any change in the positive direction, that turns into resentment.

mezentine.bsky.social•7 days ago

Thing number 2 is: what are young men asking for? Or at least, what are they *perceived* as asking for, because this crisis is deeply rooted in perception, like you identify. And the answer doesn't seem to be stable employment, it seems to be "getting rich quick".

mezentine.bsky.social•7 days ago

It doesn't seem to be meaningful relationships, it seems to be domestic and sexual labor. And so I think even the most generous observer, who does want to help young men thrive, still feels like they will be doing so by almost going *around* those men rather than in solidarity with them.

mezentine.bsky.social•7 days ago

Put those two together and you get "Powerful white men already block the things I need, and the young men in crisis seem to have needs antagonistic to my own, so why am I being told I need to care about this?"

grapesmoker.bsky.social•7 days ago

i think there's also a disconnect between what someone should do as an individual and what public policy should be. like if someone came to me and asked for advice, i would tell them what i think they should do, but making public policy can't be dependent on everyone just doing the right thing

robot-bastard.bsky.social•7 days ago

the other issue is that a public-policy solution implies that if the young men in question behave according to the policy then they deserve compensation, and there are a lot of people who are very upset at the idea of being obligated in any way to give anything to young men

grapesmoker.bsky.social•7 days ago

i'm not sure I understand what behaving according to the policy means here. we have lots of policies that are intended to promote the public welfare but which do not entail any compensation, so i'm not clear on what that would look like in this case

grapesmoker.bsky.social•7 days ago

individual responsibility obviously exists but it's not a replacement for policy. it's like the sex ed/teen pregnancy debates of yesteryear. yes, you specifically should do the right thing, but also we just need a social structure that makes that a more viable choice

kevinbaker.bsky.social•7 days ago

Or you have people who affirm problems, but provide Andrew Tate-style explanation for them. The fact that Andrew Tate-style interpretations of the problem exists helps to negate the reality of the problem.

kevinbaker.bsky.social•7 days ago

I think it's a fucked up loop that a lot of people simply do not realize they are participating in.

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