Voters were wrong to support Trump. People will tell you this isn't a helpful thing to say. But our role atm isn't to be helpful. It is to be truthful https://tinyurl.com/5x9hmss7
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How could anyone with any sense of logic in their brain ever pretend to attempt to dispute what's written there.
But he made PROMISES! He did! He made them, they're recorded. It's all bullshit of course, fuelled by those that will benefit him as an individual. But he made them as a candidate!
I think he really benefits from being a huge bullshitter that no one takes seriously. You can’t use anything terrible he says against him because they don’t believe it.
Mate, don't take anything I say the wrong way because I'm on your side. But we had that Australian cnut Rupert Murdoch lie and feed bullshit for over 40 years to the UK and then the rat Farage entering the fray to finish it off. You have experienced EXACTLY the same process. The election numbers!
No we haven’t had a Trump. We haven’t had a leader who boasts about his sexual assaults, who tried to overthrow a legitimate election result, who does not accept the rule of law.
People have never taken him seriously enough. There have been so many missed opportunities to stop him, and he side stepped them all. I am beginning to realise why Alan Weisselberg went to prison rather than rat on him. He knew the threat.
You or I wouldn’t get away with 1% of what he has gotten away with. But the uneducated are that because those at the higher end that support him have a reason to do so.
He could have been tried and convicted if it wasn’t for the delays at the Supreme Court. Most ordinary people couldn’t afford the legal fees for the fallacious lawsuits he submitted, which all went through the appeal process. But Trump’s supporters paid most of his legal fees.
I think not only the Supreme Court. Merrick Garland sat on his hands for years before appointing Jack Smith. Therefore all the delays led to him running out of time.
Yep. Like Brexit - it was the wrong choice - but, as democrats, it's our role to step back and let them get it good and hard, whilst pointing out the alternative.
So what happens now? If there's a counter-coup, who's leading it? The Democrats? The military? A counter-coup needs two things: A plan and a chain-of-command. If it's led by politicians, it needs a figurehead. If it's led by the military, it needs a constitutional basis to give it legitimacy.
Which is, of course, the problem with democracy. The idiot's opinion carries the same weight as the wise person's.
Proven truth carries the same weight as self-evident lies.
However, while accepting the truth of what you’re saying, we also have to find a way to win back these people, and telling them they were wrong won’t work. (As I’m sure you know, anyway.)
How do you do that? It would require a lot of self-reflection and a period of wide reading and curiosity in several subjects, not to mention being able to access authentic factual information. A period of suffering seems to be the only way. They may get that medicine under Tariff Trump.
If there is another genuine election, people will reject Trumpism, when they experience the consequences of his policies It won’t work if they try to be Trumplite. All the Dems need to do is to field a charismatic candidate, rather than anointing the next in line.
Astonishing is how badly they seem to understand what MAGA policies actually are.
Think it's the Chinese who pay the tariffs?
Think the food will pick itself when you expel the workforce?
Think that food will be safe without regulators?
Think the climate ain't heating coz Donald says so?
Nah, sorry.
There’s also a constant need to justify voters choices by finding faults elsewhere (DEMs now). Choosing Trump is a stupid and unethical decision but most lack intelligence &/or ethics. Rational discourse often fails; it’s time to consider other ways to guide people into seeing what’s best for them
I agree. Appeasing fascism has never been a successful strategy. The truth is that Trump is an evil bastard and there is no sane reason to say otherwise. US voters will quickly realise they have made a terrible mistake without being told by anyone else.
That anyone would vote for such a vile person shows the dire state of Western democracy at the moment. The same goes for Johnson, Farage, and so on. It is an indication of living in interesting times.
True. I'm afraid though that he will not last his tenure. Skum will sideline him, get Vance as his puppet in place and eventually take over himself. Giveaway: telephone call OrangeMan/Skum - Zelensky.
Give it a few months then it’ll be -
‘Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.’
They’ll soon find out that they are on his list of who he hates.
Well, mechanically this is the job that political parties are supposed to perform (enough cohesion that they have a long-term interest in consequences and the capacity to prevent entryists who don't).
The Republican Party collapsed so slowly that people didn't quite clock how big a deal this was.
He’s the useful patsy of those such as Musk.
Where else would they find such a vain, willing idiot ?
They’re rubbing their hands watching their wealth increase.
We've seen this before with Brexit.
Brace yourselves for ..
"It's not working because half the people aren't getting behind him and supporting him.. its their fault he's failing." The woke are the enemy, underminng him.
Bannon's probably got the first 50 memes ready to go.
While it’s considered cruel to blame marks for being conned, they knew what Trump represented but preferred hate, misogyny, racism etc over a more inclusive offering. So, yes, it is voters’ fault: they chose to ignore the evidence of their eyes & ears, especially as it hurt people they dislike.
People tend to vote for the values and personality with which they most closely identify. Trump's victory was a reflection of the American voter. Trump, then, is America. Sad, but true.
I imagine those voters will wish they had been more careful with their votes, more considerate with judgements about their chosen candidates veracity, more thoughtful about the unfairness that'll be visited on them as well as the people they were told not to like. Their lives, Trumps choice.
Well, Elmo and his algorithm targeted the absolute lowest of information voter, young non-college educated white men who also had a low propensity of voting. He pulled them all out from under the rocks.😐
These people are cultist nutcases just like the RW/kamikaze Hard Brexiters in the UK. 1+1 will always =3 in that world. That can never be appealed to & reasoned with.
These are the words I have been looking for. Just posted on Fakebook and my orange foolious loving family will see it. Will it cause a kerfuffle, no doubt. One grandson is in the military and worships that fool. Will be interesting these holi-daze! OY!
Glad someone has said it. I'm already tired of seeing the usual suspects say "you can't criticise the voters". Yes, sometimes you can when they vote for a fascist. There has been a serious breakdown in basic moral principles in America. Sometimes the voters are wrong. Sometimes darkness wins.
As a Canadian and who has enjoyed travelling to the “states” over the years. I feel the same as so many that I won’t put a dollar into Trumps economy! To me and so many others he is a menace to the world and those in it. A dangerous criminal who has been given full license to create chaos.
They voted him out. He then tried to overturn democracy. He then told them exactly who he was over and over, became a felon, in case they didn't already know what he was, and they voted him back in.
At some point, you've got to accept that they just don't care.
I am still gobsmacked that so many people fell for his jingoistic ramblings and overlooked his clearly deeply unpleasant personality traits. But people voted for Johnson, Farage, Hitler.
Not to mention that he is a felon and had two more very serious charges to be litigated one of which stealing classified documents and doing God knows what with it that nobody seem to think was worth mentioning every time they open their mouth.
Its far worse than Brexit. People voted for Brexit and then have largely regretted it since. People voted Trump in 2016, saw 4 years of him and have decided to come back for more.
One thing I’ve learned is that telling people they voted the wrong way, or voted for the wrong reasons, is nothing more than making yourself feel better. Fine if you want to do that, but it’s a retrograde step that either pisses people who voted that way off or makes them tune out.
I don’t think it’s helpful, if you think your role is to reduce the chances of something like this, or worse, happening again. We should know from Brexit that simply telling people how wrong they were doesn’t advance our cause.
Well, right and wrong only make sense in reference to a moral code. I guess Trump and his supporters do not see things the way we do since their ethical stance is somewhat different. So they are not wrong, only 'wrong according to us'.
Wrong according to the law. There’s no debate about whether sexually assaulting women and bragging about it is wrong. It’s not a debate that has 2 sides.
Sure, the law is a moral code that has a right and wrong, which fits into what I said. I don't think the argument above was about whether or not Trump had broken the law.
Germans were wrong to vote for Hitler, Russians were wrong to vote for Putin (even as his speciality is ballot rigging). Moral relativism is a blindfold.
I don’t know where you start. They only seem to see local network news controlled by right wing media moguls. They never travel due to lack of holiday entitlement and job security. They seem to have no real understanding of the global picture. Latinos voting for denaturalisation is just insane.
However, he's going to drive a coach and horses through the rule of law globally. Which country is going to stand up and say we don't admit convicted felons? No one.
I was wondering about that. In the UK apparently if a convicted felon has a sentence of over 12 months in prison they would likely get visa turned down. But Trump will obviously avoid prison (sadly) and will no doubt be over here again soon. Ugh.
I don't know. I threw it out there in the hope that someone might. I'm on sabbatical at present but when I'm back in the Law School I will ask a couple of colleagues as I'm not a criminal law specialist. However, there's a bloke in the UK government who used to run the CPS. He might have some idea.
There's no way, diplomatically, that they'd ban him from entry. remember how obsessed we are with this so-called "special relationship" - not so special to Trump, that's for sure. He doesn't care about anyone else.
I hate that phrase. It only means something in the minds of Foreign Office mandarins, journey and a certain type of voter. France is "the oldest relationship". Germany is, I think, "the strongest relationship". And the State Department is happy to go along with all of it.
I'd upgraded my subscription to annual paid. We're going to need more 'diamond cutters' like this to stay in touch with the better angels of our nature 🙏🏻
Comments
The voters were duped. Sadly the regime they voted for won't be worrying about the policies, or the voters, for that matter.
But he made PROMISES! He did! He made them, they're recorded. It's all bullshit of course, fuelled by those that will benefit him as an individual. But he made them as a candidate!
Proven truth carries the same weight as self-evident lies.
However, while accepting the truth of what you’re saying, we also have to find a way to win back these people, and telling them they were wrong won’t work. (As I’m sure you know, anyway.)
Think it's the Chinese who pay the tariffs?
Think the food will pick itself when you expel the workforce?
Think that food will be safe without regulators?
Think the climate ain't heating coz Donald says so?
Nah, sorry.
‘Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.’
They’ll soon find out that they are on his list of who he hates.
The Republican Party collapsed so slowly that people didn't quite clock how big a deal this was.
Where else would they find such a vain, willing idiot ?
They’re rubbing their hands watching their wealth increase.
Brace yourselves for ..
"It's not working because half the people aren't getting behind him and supporting him.. its their fault he's failing." The woke are the enemy, underminng him.
Bannon's probably got the first 50 memes ready to go.
I.e. this one
https://substack.com/home/post/p-151366257
But "moral fact"?
Really?
Happy Exploding Whale Day to those who celebrate.
https://www.oregonlive.com/travel/2024/11/exploding-whale-day-now-a-full-fledged-holiday-on-the-oregon-coast-heres-how-to-celebrate.html
But I'm past pretending it's not the fault of voters. It very much is. And they deserve to suffer the consequences for decades. Just like Brexit.
But by God, they'll take the damn shame for it. They're not pinning what comes next on anybody else.
There's clearly been a great deal of misinformation and some election meddling going on.
At some point, you've got to accept that they just don't care.
Whether someone that voted for him was wrong or not depends on your moral view. You and I may think they were wrong, but so what?