I think a lot of people will struggle to agree with some notion of duty to keep them on X. They do this sort of thing for fun. And X is just nasty now.
Indeed. The notion of duty to stay on X is ridiculous. Users ARE the product, and by being there we ARE propping up a business that serves the financial, and in this case political, interest of the owner.
I’d actually go so far as to say if you think the owner of x is a danger to democracy, (and that can be someone of any political stripe) then it’s actually your duty to NOT engage there.
The owner has the power to game the playing field for his own purposes, prioritize polarizing content, allow misinformation and hate speech, and *we* have a duty to stay there? For what purpose would that be? Far better to have constructive and good faith debate here on a more level playing field.
Social media is something I do for fun to talk to interesting people. I’m still on Twitter because there are a few good people there who haven’t moved here. If the algorithm is constantly pushing race science and Andrew Tate style misogyny I have no obligation to hear them out.
Yeah I had similar feelings. I loved Twitter for up to the minute info on big events and very interesting experts in different fields. For me the breaking point was the run up to the election when it went full maga, and I deleted it. But I feel the quality of conversation here now is better anyway.
Twitter became a cesspit that actively served up hate; why should I bother staying just to get abuse? And the abusive people on twitter do it because they enjoy "owning the libs". Remove the people they enjoy abusing and I suspect the place will wither on the vine
TL:DR hard pass from me
I'm sorry, but it's nonsense. There is nothing to be gained by shouting endlessly into a sewer. If you want to talk, go somewhere where people listen. Disagreement is welcome; toxicity is not.
Absolutely daft take. Should we all subscribe to the daily telegraph so that we can fund insane right wing takes too? Maybe we should all become Tory donors, just in case they don't have enough money to compete.
Lots of people are making the same (valid) point in response - lots of us don’t want an echo chamber, actively seek out contrary points of view etc. But that doesn’t mean we have to put up with the crap social media model Musk has created.
This point just openly conflates conservatism with hate. And further is implying that it's conservatism that people are leaving, despite the exodus began well after conservative voices began dominating twitter (and they had been there all along).
'The charge is that the platform is full of hate', not conservative voices. If social media is split along the line of hate and not hate, I don't see that as the same problem as liberal and conservative.
Maybe Hollywood would have not been materially different, but we snowflakes would have had to wade through a lot fewer crap films when we popped out to BetaBuster on a wet Saturday afternoon.
The overall comparison is wrong. It mistakes available content on different formats for what movies Hollywood releases more generally.
Film snobs abandoned by Betamax could always choose Laserdisc (1979-2001). You got better quality pictures and fewer titles. Hollywood still made straight to video.
But this argument is based on a delusion that reasonable posts make any difference to the prejudiced. I doubt it. I think there may be a strong degree of reluctance to give up the illusion of influence indicated by follower stats when half of them are dormant or dead and another quarter are bots.
Bsky is surely an open goal for any passionate right-winger who wants engage in healthy debate?
Why trudge through an endless stream of blue ticks to find someone human to spar with when there's millions of us here?
I heard Stpehen Fry say in a podcast recently that X is like is like a townhall meeting where a few people are allowed a loudspeaker while the rest are not.
The lack of any kind of moderation for white supremacy, antisemitism and abuse of all kinds mean it’s a pretty untenable place to spend time on anymore. Deleted my account and will never go back.
Although I can understand that argument, frankly I do social media as a way to be entertained, informed and educated. Twitter did that for a while, X did not. It is not a land or an ideology, it is Musks plaything, and it is toxic. I left.
I am hoping for proper debate on here alongside the frivolous. Twitter was just becoming a place to send abuse. Like Facebook has just become a place to show-off. My hopes are high.....
Inaccurate. What will happen is that majority of Twitter who are normal people will all migrate to here. Twitter will become a hard right echo chamber just like Trump's thingy that no one cares about.
Kinda agree. If public is split into left/center/right and the left decide to leave X, center continues to stay due to friction, then it means right will be able to completely dictate terms/messaging and brainwash the center to vote for them? Will this not skew the majority to favour the right?
Musk's politics were one factor for me (I blocked him long before he bought x), not the only and deciding one. Fact is x has become a complete mess. Toxicity, reporting/moderation have given up, priority in replies given to BTW's who are either abusive, inane, or both. x has declined below Betamax.
I followed a few sane RW accounts on x precisely for different views. If they choose not to post here, that's on them. I get X has become a habit, people need to move on (or not, their choice).
Strong disagree. When the platform you've been using catastrophically fails, it's acceptable to find an alternative. One that doesn't disproportionately amplify only certain voices, one where abusive behaviour isn't the norm. Maybe even one you can explore without OF or temu ads every few posts.
It's become a hateful cesspit with little if any regulation & swamped by bots. Dont know if myself & thousands of others closing our Twitter accounts may have any impact upon the crank that wrecked the platform but if its the best we can do, that's enough for me
This is just weird. Twitter suppressed genuine discussion and exploration. Replies were a mess. It is just broken as a way of having healthy discourse.
Why do I have to read all that crap because Enron decided to amplify crazies, stop us being able to effectively block them, and then jam a million Temu ads down our throats
He is right that division in two different spheres is bad, but the problem with X aren’t the opinions of his owners, it is that the owner has rigged the algorithm and that it is clearly no longer a level playing field. I am all for the free and open exchange of ideas, but X no longer is that.
Also there is a rather crucial difference between fact and opinion and Musk is using every tool available to him to persuade everyone that there isn’t.
That said, we need more conservatives to come over here, otherwise it is pointless.
Its not just algorithms, most of us are grown up to see through that, it's the hate, racism, fraud, crypto, pornography on X, it's just a horrible experience being there, it's no advert for Musk's libertarian, deregulated dream.
That would depend on what the point is, surely? If the point is to persuade others from the other side of the political divide that is one (perhaps improbable) thing; if it is to receive news and information and exchange ideas with those you can have a civil conversation with it's another.
I have a lot of respect for Oliver, but the Betamax/VHS comparison is completely off the mark. Social media, what it does, how the algorithms are gamed and who owns it are valid considerations for users. Also, no one should feel obliged to post on a network primarily aimed at racists for "balance".
Twitter is heavily weighted towards (usually right wing) blue tick accounts, effectively consigning those who do not pay to shouting into the void, which IMHO is a form of censorship. X also censors by way of troll attacks, driving people from the platform.
It's pointless staying there.
Absolutely not. Nobody has a "duty" to expose themselves to the atrocious user experience on X. And there is no winning when the platform owner is actively working against you.
I would agree too, but what's the answer? Should one stay with Twitter/X and ignore the cesspit it has become? Or maybe prompt more conservatives to migrate here? Or what?
Interesting that VHS was the worst technology of the 3 formats (including Philips V2000 which was by far the best). Probably a good parallel with X/Twitter after all.
It’s just a social media platform. Which is mostly full of bots, rage farmers and an algorithm that promotes both.
We still live and engage with all these real people in the real world, where they’re much more polite, willing to listen and engage and less likely to swear at me.
But it is not a fragmentation into liberal and conservative. X has become a nasty place, filled with bile. No-one sees your post unless you have a blue tick. It is failing as social media. Conservatives should not associate with it.
The choice is between a platform that works, and one that doesn't.
The issue with Twitter and BlueSky gets confused if seen in left-right terms. It’s better to see it in epistemic terms. These are places where we go to chat. We share knowledge, we create knowledge. If groups of people have different commitments about the basic rules of this game, you’re in trouble.
A place where people are committed to sincerity, mutual respect and the value of truth isn’t an echo chamber. It’s the only kind of place where knowledge sharing and creation can be harmonious and effective.
People on BlueSky endlessly repeat that they don’t care about the political affiliations of the people they chat with. They just don’t want to be trolled.
Agree, if you bought a film on VHS and it turned out to have a trailer for a porn film on it, you wouldn't be very happy (probably) or if you bought a family funny, but got the distant sounds of goose-stepping far right video clips, it might make you think about changing suppliers.
The disintegration of meaningful dialog between left and right is already disastrous. Twitter specifically collapsing because of Musk's ineffective attempts to make it profitable isn't driving anything new.
I’m not sure the dividing line is going to be political orientation as much as it is personality types. high conflict desperados and maybe status quo passivists who stick to their “following” (vs “for you”) feed could maybe eke out a meager strain of memberberry soup over there
and, even over here the desperados and alarmists could develop their own little ecosystem, except to the extent that they value expanding their markets to suck in engagement metrics which, thankfully, can’t even be found over here, much less be exploited for advertising revenue
nazis can flourish among their own kind here, they just won’t be able to as easily co-opt/recruit ppl who aren’t already with them. same for communist revolutionaries and hyper-radical lefty types seeking to convert every topic into existential moral failings of our imperial capitalist sycophancy
Fair point....but I think many people are just tired of all the intolerant, ad hominem, "liberal tears" type stuff on X...but are happy to engage with civilized disagreement.
Agreed. I try to be tolerant but if someone if going to be rude, crass, black & white and intolerant just cos my idea does not match theirs...sadly it helps nobody.
Yes. It's *social* media after all, intended (as far as I'm concerned, anyway) to expand horizons and enhance lives. As soon as it descends into invective and threats, I'm out.
It's one point of view, but many of us (particularly women) started to feel unsafe on Twitter after the Musk takeover, and by the time of the election, the trolling had reached a pitch and volume of obscenity that nobody should be forced to endure.
Nope. This is another pundit who doesn't quite get it. VHS vs Betamax is a nonsense analogy that ignores huge dollops of reality.
It might have applied if VHS was controlled by a toxic, fascist billionaire who decided what you were going to watch each time you pushed the cassette in....
This sounds extrapolation. I think people are just tired of “toxic” in general. And many realised that just by staying, they were inadvertently pumping the numbers of viewers and being passive participants in something they don’t agree with.
If the fragmentation of social media into liberal and conservative platforms is bad, it seems like the real problem is Musk making twitter into a right-wing platform. B/f that happened, no body was contemplating a twitter exodus.
I don't accept the thesis that people are leaving Twitter because they don't want to interact with Conservatives. That's completely out of touch with what Twitter/X is now. People are leaving Twitter because they don't want to interact with racists, homophobes, bigots and full-feathered Nazis.
Comparing apples and oranges. Not wanting to wallow in a toxic soup of bots, misinformation and hate is a perfectly acceptable response. Leave X to rot. Too many X users are still caught in the sunk cost fallacy which is how they justify saying.
Not so much a fragmentation between liberals & conservatives as a deep moat separating bigots, bullies, nationalists, masculinists, delusional d$ckheads etc., from the rest of us, who may have our differences but are mature enough to discuss them without wanting to imprison or kill each other.
1. Bluesky is growing very quickly, another million users in the last 24hours, it's now at 17.5 m and still rising
2. The Musk X algorithm pushed hate and pro Trump messages and muted liberals
I wouldn't play a football match where the referee worked for the other team
Thing is, I’ve not quit Twitter to seek some comfy echo chamber. I left because it’s really unpleasant and abusive, full of content that amplifies street violence & porn, and the algorithm essentially killed any ‘reach’ my tweets once had.
What I am seeing here (for now) is nuance and polite dialogue from people who actually know what they are talking about.
Difficult to discuss eg climate change or public health on X without 200 replies from Blueticklotsanumbers throwing hate, abuse and off-the-chart Dunning-Krugerism
Who uses VHS or BetaMax now? Twitter wasn’t for ever and neither will Bluesky.
The idea that X is a town square and we should accept its “rough edges” because it’s a social good is laughable. And the echo chamber slur is touted by those that want to crush different views, not celebrate them.
Comments
TL:DR hard pass from me
Film snobs abandoned by Betamax could always choose Laserdisc (1979-2001). You got better quality pictures and fewer titles. Hollywood still made straight to video.
I’m not sure why that would be a problem for either the film industry or the viewers.
It's pointless now.
Why trudge through an endless stream of blue ticks to find someone human to spar with when there's millions of us here?
The reply boost given to people who pay Elon means that our voices are effectively suppressed beneath an avalanche of maga bile.
IMO we don’t have any choice but to make this work. And I welcome conservatives too fwiw
Why do I have to read all that crap because Enron decided to amplify crazies, stop us being able to effectively block them, and then jam a million Temu ads down our throats
They can keep it.
That said, we need more conservatives to come over here, otherwise it is pointless.
It's pointless staying there.
just not interested in KKK-level racist shouting contests in my comments
thanks.
We still live and engage with all these real people in the real world, where they’re much more polite, willing to listen and engage and less likely to swear at me.
The choice is between a platform that works, and one that doesn't.
It's state apparatus.
We should question the loyalty of any non US politician, elected official or government worker still on it.
It might have applied if VHS was controlled by a toxic, fascist billionaire who decided what you were going to watch each time you pushed the cassette in....
1. Bluesky is growing very quickly, another million users in the last 24hours, it's now at 17.5 m and still rising
2. The Musk X algorithm pushed hate and pro Trump messages and muted liberals
I wouldn't play a football match where the referee worked for the other team
Difficult to discuss eg climate change or public health on X without 200 replies from Blueticklotsanumbers throwing hate, abuse and off-the-chart Dunning-Krugerism
So why stay?
The idea that X is a town square and we should accept its “rough edges” because it’s a social good is laughable. And the echo chamber slur is touted by those that want to crush different views, not celebrate them.