Extremely unfun fact: math like this is one of the reasons the Nazis ended up deciding to build death camps. They decided it was cheaper and easier to murder people, rather than deal with the logistics of moving them somewhere else after they had been deported. - ThreadSky

chimeracoder.bsky.social • 35 days ago

Extremely unfun fact: math like this is one of the reasons the Nazis ended up deciding to build death camps.

They decided it was cheaper and easier to murder people, rather than deal with the logistics of moving them somewhere else after they had been deported.

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Comments

brofessorship.bsky.social•35 days ago

It's also cheaper logistically to eliminate the nazis and avoid this mess.

lsmith1964.bsky.social•35 days ago

Ugh.

danifroom.bsky.social•35 days ago

And the 4% is just a starting number - they've already greatly escalated that by going after birthright citizenship (and admitting they're going to detain citizens regardless), and it's very clear they don't intend to stop with immigrants when it comes to their roundups and camps.

deaf-doctor.bsky.social•35 days ago

Oh Jesus

taduki.bsky.social•35 days ago

A solution to a problem

pianoodle.bsky.social•35 days ago

And it was a process. If I remember developments correctly they began by gassing people in trucks as they were mobile but the exhaust fumes took too long to do the job and the dying made too much noise making people in the surrounding areas uncomfortable.

symbo1ics.bsky.social•35 days ago

Exactly. Fascists inevitably get bored of the costs and tedium of moving people alive. And we can see one (of many) template for everything that will happen in the past 80 years in Palestine.

symbo1ics.bsky.social•35 days ago

Fascism is _always the same_ and that is why the past 100 years is a very detailed guide. It wasn't supposed to be a guide to our future but USA never stood up to it but embraced it ever more fully, eliminating all meaningful opposition to it and fostering its rise in most of the globe, e.g.India.

symbo1ics.bsky.social•35 days ago

(And the rest of the Five Eyes remain the biggest part of that global problem, notably Canada.)

ladysnark.bsky.social•35 days ago

Another issue is that many of the countries we’d send these deportees to won’t accept them.

One solution is to bully or bribe other countries to take them.

The other is to just kill them.

assfarter.bsky.social•35 days ago

When it comes time for us to do that math, we won't even be factoring in the cost of building camps - our prison industrial complex built everything we'll need for this genocide long ago.

festlegen.bsky.social•35 days ago

This thread is entirely correct. However, the nazis started with execution squads, shooting them. This was extremely traumatizing to the SS and the extermination camps were introduced to make it more practicable to remove such a large number og undesirables.

bluegirlpdx.bsky.social•35 days ago

📌

annaleehq.bsky.social•35 days ago

📌

sanjaynayak.bsky.social•35 days ago

📌

zpowers.bsky.social•35 days ago

People forget that Nazis absolutely did not start at extermination. Deportation became less feasible, ghettos became less feasible, maintaining prison camps became less feasible. They had to build to it.

chimeracoder.bsky.social•35 days ago

This is one of the things they teach you if you ever go on a tour of Auschwitz-Birkenau. The gas chambers and crematoria were, from the Nazi's perspective, an easy solution to a *logistical* problem. They were designed for efficiency.

m00psy.bsky.social•35 days ago

carokinkead.bsky.social•35 days ago

One reason I recommend the 2001 film Conspiracy, based on the Wannsee conference. They sit and talk about logistics in a setting that feels all too familiar if you’ve been in the corporate workd. The banality of how the discussion is carried out is chilling.

howdytimbo.bsky.social•35 days ago

such an tough watch. will never forget when they were discussing how one current method (ie troops and machine guns) was greatly and negatively impacting the soldiers psyches. showed how truly terrible the situation was, and yet to become.

anthrodiva.bsky.social•35 days ago

The Final Solution so to speak. I saw the original Wannsee Memo and nearly threw up.

sababausa.bsky.social•35 days ago

A logistical problem of sustaining and utility of slave labor, too

Even then, they struggled with operational bottlenecks to “murder as many people as possible as quickly & efficiently as possible”

Eleven million people is a whole goddamn lot of humanity

chimeracoder.bsky.social•35 days ago

I say this not to detract from the cruelty or enormity of what the Nazis did, but to illustrate *how they arrived at that*. It's super important to understand that they didn't just start with death camps - they made a whole series of decisions which ultimately led there.

chimeracoder.bsky.social•35 days ago

The Nazis started by dehumanizing people (particularly but not exclusively News), establishing them as no different from vermin, and then stripping away their citizenship and rights. From there, it became a mechanical and logistical problem of what to do with them.

frankhghtwr.bsky.social•35 days ago

Wait, so we could've prevented the holocaust by flooding germany with books like Peter Rabbit that depict vermin as human?

chimeracoder.bsky.social•35 days ago

Once you've already established that these people are no different from vermin, it's easy to answer the question of "how to dispose of them efficiently" with actions that would be unthinkable if you were applying them to people whom you actually saw as human.

glialcellar.bsky.social•35 days ago

I guess the ussr train system saved some of “undesirable individuals, “zionists”, “reactionaries” and their families in the 1930s and an entire ethnicity of “traitors” (Crimean Tatars) in the40s from being killed immediately.Well, also they needed some free workforce in the far east to build stuff.

glialcellar.bsky.social•35 days ago

So I assume it would be labour camps for the US case because like ussr (&unlike Germany) they have a plenty of wild areas to concentrate unpaid labourers, there’s no need to create Lebensraum. But there’s need have workforce that can’t quit or say “no”. Even China decided towards cheap labour🙃🙃🙃

chimeracoder.bsky.social•35 days ago

It didn't stop with murdering them. Even disposing of the bodies became a logistical problem - that's why they created the crematoria, but even then, the *ashes* became a logistical problem as well.

If you ever visit Birkenau, you'll see firsthand what they did to "solve" this problem.

chimeracoder.bsky.social•35 days ago

The Holocaust is what you get when you view deportation as a purely logistical problem and optimize for efficiency, with no regard to humanity or human suffering. It's not the result of a unique set of circumstances; it's the result of a series of decisions which could easily happen again.

clementinedanger.bsky.social•35 days ago

I would love for people to internalize that there wasn't a core of metaphysical evil at the heart of every Nazi that is lacking in us. They were just people who absorbed a set of beliefs and picked a few facts and acted on those things. Evil isn't a state of being. It's in the banality of it all.

astrocat.bsky.social•35 days ago

Recently watched a miniseries called All The Light We Cannot See. It was alright. They portrayed the Nazis like you say, like unique evil. But they went so far as to be almost parody; instead of one particular Nazi being insanely cruel, the dozen or so we meet are all insanely cruel, so much so /

astrocat.bsky.social•35 days ago

/ that one of the Nazis gets unnerved when meeting another Nazi whose cruelty is extreme even to him. It's like you say, by doing this they're saying you and I can't be Nazis even in fact that is possible if you're not careful and aware

clementinedanger.bsky.social•35 days ago

If you're wondering why leftists are always wanking on about theory, it's because you can't possibly know if you're a cog in the death machine without first perceiving the machine.

"Wir haben es nicht gewußt"

Well you could have.

clementinedanger.bsky.social•35 days ago

There's no metaphysical goodness that repels evil in you either. You act in service of the machine or you don't, end of.

jfsearle.bsky.social•35 days ago

It is also worth noting that the thing that distinguished the holocaust from previous progroms was its efficiency rather than it's intent. There were plenty of attempts to rid geographical areas of Jews.

canonicallytrans.bsky.social•35 days ago

Let's be real. They're going to end up in forced labor camps.

jparrott80.bsky.social•35 days ago

These would probably have high death rates from both incompetence and cost-saving measures that have high lethality. So not that readily distinguishable from death camps.

chimeracoder.bsky.social•35 days ago

yes and no. In the Holocaust, labor camps and death camps are two separate things, and it gets confusing because the most well-known (Auschwitz-Birkenau) was actually both. Part of that is because there were so many survivors; the camps that were just death camps had few or none.

elementaleucology.com•35 days ago

Technically they are separate things, but functionally they are not when resources are scarce and the fungible laboring class can't cultivate enough food to keep them and their captors alive.

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