Macron's government is looking to pass a new law that would allow France to repeal a foreigner's visas & expel them from the country if they don't "respect the values of the Republic," even absent any criminal case or charges. lemonde.fr/societe/arti... - ThreadSky

taniel.bsky.social • 508 days ago

Macron's government is looking to pass a new law that would allow France to repeal a foreigner's visas & expel them from the country if they don't "respect the values of the Republic," even absent any criminal case or charges. https://lemonde.fr/societe/article/2023/10/18/loi-immigration-un-etranger-expulsable-sans-infraction-penale-selon-olivier-veran_6195193_3224.html…

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blagueplague.bsky.social•508 days ago

is this even possible in the context of Shengen?

n0nmanifest.bsky.social•508 days ago

Schengen has been largely torn up over the past year or so

atj.bsky.social•507 days ago

Can you provide any sources that support this sweeping statement?

n0nmanifest.bsky.social•507 days ago

Here's a list of all the Schengen countries that have instituted new border controls https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en

atj.bsky.social•507 days ago

Thanks. I think "largely torn up" is rather hyperbolic, but it's not really credible that member states are applying these "restrictions" only as a "last resort measure, in exceptional situations".

lori215.bsky.social•508 days ago

Gee, what could go wrong?

gregstolze.bsky.social•508 days ago

Just picturing some panicky girl insisting, "It's not a headscarf, my hair just looked awful today!"

ranamar.bsky.social•508 days ago

I remember a news story years back about people wearing bandanas to school in protest about a previous round of all this.
Historically, I know why France is like this, but it's definitely usually applied in extremely ugly ways.

lizardky.bsky.social•508 days ago

"Ze leopards n'nomez pas moi face!"

clayteapot.bsky.social•507 days ago

Bout to get booted from France for forgetting my baguette in my apartment.

falanxzealot.bsky.social•508 days ago

Well this is a direct contravention of the UN Charter.

Oh, would you look at that...

taniel.bsky.social•508 days ago

The first example mentioned in the Le Monde article of what could get someone kicked out of the country...: a student who is outwardly wearing religious symbols or clothing in school.

kurthy.bsky.social•508 days ago

I wonder who they're going to target with that? It ain't going to be someone wearing a cross necklace.

debrecenisrac46.bsky.social•508 days ago

Which is why translation needs to be pitch perfect. Yes in french public schools you cannot wear a yamulke, cross, nikab or any other religion's clothing.

lizardky.bsky.social•508 days ago

Are there any statistics on how the law is applied de facto, rather than de jure?

In the US, at least, facially neutral laws are regularly applied non-neutrally, which is why many courts do not take "but both rich AND poor are forbidden to sleep under bridges!" claims of neutrality unquestioningly.

debrecenisrac46.bsky.social•508 days ago

On statista I've only found polls on the issue. Nowadays and especially since 9/11 mostly Islamic clothing comes up, though dressing as Jesus , a priest or a nun while not being either would be sanctioned too.

almodozo.bsky.social•508 days ago

One difference is that France's "republican" ethos goes back a long way and was at one point very much anti-clerical; so unlike with the bridges example, it wasn't inherently only ever going to be aimed at minority group X. But yeah, at this point it's obviously squarely aimed at targeting Muslims.

thecleric.bsky.social•508 days ago

Exactly. I'm sure that African Americans making up 39% of the prison population and 14% of the general population is just bad luck because we have no laws that specifically factor in race.

bonercoleslaw.bsky.social•508 days ago

This is in many ways a spirit of the law vs letter of the law situation in the sense that the letter of the law forbids all religious iconography in schools but the spirit of the law is “we want to persecute as many Muslims as possible”.

debrecenisrac46.bsky.social•508 days ago

That would be misunderstanding it. The original 1905 targeted Jews, and today you hear more about Muslims because a loud minority want representation in public schools. French bigotry is more poverty and not religion based.

bonercoleslaw.bsky.social•508 days ago

I’m talking about it’s contemporary implementation obviously.

French bigotry is absolutely about religion (and also race). It’s one of the most islamophobic countries in Europe.

taniel.bsky.social•508 days ago

And the intent of the law by those who passed it was evidently not to address some issue of too many students wearing a cross.

dawnxianamoon.bsky.social•507 days ago

I'm sure the law was targeted at Muslims and France absolutely has issues with Islamophobia, but France is actually the rare country that would absolutely go after people wearing cross necklaces too. It's not the US in that way.

dawnxianamoon.bsky.social•507 days ago

* To be clear though, this law is very, very bad.

bellamoss77.bsky.social•508 days ago

I walked around Paris in a nuns habit and nobody said anything or bothered me about it so, yes, can confirm this won’t be directed at Christians.

It’s gross and France needs to do better.

apocalypticanow.bsky.social•508 days ago

laïcité rears its ugly head again

michealsandbank.bsky.social•508 days ago

Yikes

elsieyork.bsky.social•508 days ago

FFS

semilocon.bsky.social•506 days ago

That link goes to some ressort site, no idea how to find the article on there.

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