Column. On pathetic European freeloaders. www.thetimes.com/article/7652... - ThreadSky

hugorifkind.bsky.social • 4 days ago

Column. On pathetic European freeloaders.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/7652c5a3-7201-4de6-857b-958d25f2c9a4?shareToken=62152a9c5d20d803e216658472138ab4

Comments

jasongood.bsky.social•4 days ago

I’m reminded of the old Not The Nine O’Clock News sketch about America “having been late for the last two world wars, want to be really early for the next one”.

simonsmith.bsky.social•4 days ago

Really pleased that as a ‘voice of The Times’ you’ve been so firm on this. Which is why I still respect your paper. Unlike the other British ‘T’ newspaper, which is now a joke.

nickequipechasee.bsky.social•4 days ago

It's almost as if all their excuses all come from the same source ... ?

hillaryshouldawon.bsky.social•4 days ago

Please historians, share a quick host lesson for dummies.

mapi77.bsky.social•4 days ago

Exactly this, wait until they find out that Canada, Europe and Japan will make their own decisions and do not go along with American shenanigans anymore…

clytemnestra65.bsky.social•4 days ago

Do they not know this or are they using knowingly false info to create a story that suits their stance knowing most of their base will have no idea it's a lie? Immoral and evil rather than stupid. Imo

xwoodward.bsky.social•3 days ago

Agree with this article. More fundamentally/practically when has Europe freeloaded? Afghanistan, Iraq were USA freeloading on Europe in support of their interests. Same (but a bit more nuanced) for Libya, Syria and Yemen/Res Sea. Only Kosovo in last 24 years has been troops deployed by USA

xwoodward.bsky.social•3 days ago

(And proportionate at c30%) in support of Europe.
Ukraine is different but is financial aid really.
The value of the US backstop is large but it doesn’t cost the US anything to provide it and in return they get our support for their wars.

haskell.bsky.social•4 days ago

"If we still controlled the Canal Zone we'd be able to do something about the Houthis in Yemen" is pretty Times-brain commentary

sjbof.uk•1 day ago

Also no-one in Europe asked them to do a Heart of Darkness number on the population of Yemen. Vance's moaning was doubly ignorant as Netanyahu is obviously the one who's dirty work they were doing.

stjohn75.bsky.social•4 days ago

This needs to be said more

joannab24.bsky.social•4 days ago

I keep asking if any of the current US administration know any history😱 They seem to think the world started on Trump's inauguration day!

daviduknorthwest.bsky.social•4 days ago

Hugo, that’s an excellent article. However, to be honest, you’re expecting Trump’s cabinet to grasp the fundamental principles of military history. They repeatedly demonstrate that they have no clue about it.

billheywood.bsky.social•4 days ago

You must bear in mind that 100% of the US administration are morons

zaphodbeeblebr0x.bsky.social•4 days ago

It’s crucial to remember this or nothing that happens in the next couple of years will make any sense

sunshineincal.bsky.social•4 days ago

Bueller? Classic!!!

allmykidshavepaws.bsky.social•4 days ago

Talk about being absolutely fucking pathetic! They have no clue that Germany & Japan were severely limited in the "military" they were allowed to have after WWII!
We & our allies are the ones who limited them!
That should be obvious even for a total moron.
#MAGA "Americans" better get woke ...

allmykidshavepaws.bsky.social•4 days ago

real fucking quick because they are about to commit the same fucking atrocities that Germany did!
They have already established concentration camps & they have already "had people die in detention!" People they were RESPONSIBLE for what happened to them! Guess what Americans...WE ARE TOO! We will...

allmykidshavepaws.bsky.social•4 days ago

ALL be RESPONSIBLE for what happens to these people because absolute fucking morons voted for him!

simonbm.bsky.social•4 days ago

The Americans only really think domestically and the world is an adjunct about which they can say and think anything at all. There really isn’t any point in lecturing them. We just have to get on with European independence and ignore them.

olebiscuitbarrel.bsky.social•4 days ago

100% this.

jw-here.bsky.social•3 days ago

European independence from/of America. Unlike America, Europeans are happy to still be friends with the rest of the world.

cyesterling.bsky.social•4 days ago

America is on the human rights watch list. Just a little PSA for you. Also note that democracy watch is planning on listing america as an authoritarian government in 2026, not a democracy. Just let that simmer.

brianhprobert.bsky.social•4 days ago

The two Germanies both had pretty big armies during the Cold War

blancheleathers.bsky.social•4 days ago

*preach* (to the converted)

johnkb.bsky.social•4 days ago

Ask your dad

johnkb.bsky.social•4 days ago

Europe hasn’t spent enough on defence - get over it

kateedmonds.bsky.social•4 days ago

It hardly bears saying that those who don’t know history are condemned to repeat it….

orbitaloasis.bsky.social•1 day ago

Maybe you can add a little side panel about nuclear weapons?^

stephaniemac.bsky.social•4 days ago

The Bundeswehr could once field about 1,000,000 men when fully mobilised. Even if German defence policy under Merkel was farcical there’s a very good reason why it was reduced so significantly 🤦‍♀️

nearlytoolate.bsky.social•4 days ago

Well. I can’t imagine they actually want to lose US military supremacy. Frankly it is the thing that gives them global power.

marbencel1.bsky.social•4 days ago

Excellent article by Hugo Rifkind. Read it in full. I could wish to quote any part of it but this 👇stands out as a major indicator of the long standing trouble caused by American foreign policy.....

marbencel1.bsky.social•4 days ago

"But how long before the likes of France and Germany start to wonder whether the Houthis would be bombing boats at all were it not for American sponsorship of Israel and Saudi Arabia, and antipathy to Iran?"

haskell.bsky.social•4 days ago

the Barbary Pirates were actually protesting European hegemony over the Mediterranean. We should have listened to their Legitimate Complaints

jockhigh.bsky.social•1 day ago

For famously transactional people, the Trump crew seems to have taken for granted what the US gets in return for their defence spending and responsibilities, and now don't count it as a return contingent on their behaviour and expense.
That seems short sighted at best.

jockhigh.bsky.social•1 day ago

Hey, we're spending all this money on defence and what do we get in return?
No, not counting unprecedented lengthy world peace, and us as the hegemonic leader.
Nothing. We get nothing.

So they actually need the world to say thank you? Would that make them happy?

luckysitsinback.bsky.social•4 days ago

https://www.thetimes.com/article/7652c5a3-7201-4de6-857b-958d25f2c9a4?shareToken=62152a9c5d20d803e216658472138ab4
bsky !

luckysitsinback.bsky.social•4 days ago

thank you!

ehunterchristie.bsky.social•4 days ago

Yes, history did put Europe on a peculiar trajectory.
But cuts in capabilities and force size post-2008 were entirely our fault and entirely unwise. Russia had just attacked Georgia. The warning was clear. And we did the cuts anyway. To save peanuts in an explosion of short-term thinking.

nickequipechasee.bsky.social•4 days ago

Apparently, the reason for that is that since the end of the (first) cold war, the emphasis in military doctrine (and so spending) has switched away from a major confrontation in Europe, to small expeditionary forces being despatched in support of US forces around the World

ehunterchristie.bsky.social•4 days ago

That's only partly true. It was always the national responsibility of each European country to choose how much to continue to invest for traditional defence needs. Our govts made deep cuts largely in order to save money for electoral purposes.

morgenrothedgar.bsky.social•4 days ago

You can go to more recent history too.
Who invoked Article 5 and who supported the US in Afghanistan suffering significant casualties, and significant political fall out in their countries?

alexcork.bsky.social•4 days ago

I'm not the first to point this out but if Europe (or japan) rearms in a big way the current US administration isn't going to like that either because it challenges their big boy in the playground position. We *do* need to spend more on defence but the US position is about bullying and belittling.

poppingbubbles.bsky.social•4 days ago

Japan has been doing this for a while. Obviously the urgency in Europe is more recent but it's also doing so. Not convinced Americans will enjoy the result, but it IS happening.

rich-bryant.uk•4 days ago

I would say it's equally urgent in southeast Asia given the noises the PRC are making about Taiwan on an ever more regular basis.

adamcain.bsky.social•4 days ago

Excellent stuff, Hugo, but as a matter of pedantry I'd like to point out that after its foundation in 1955 to the end of the Cold War Germany maintained three whole army corps, compared to the two corps deployed by the US army in Germany.

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