germany does have a free speech confusion, mostly involving the past year’s crackdown on gaza-related protest. but its anti-nazi speech rules are historic and, though not without problem, understandable considering the legacy of the shoah & contemporary extreme right wing violence. - ThreadSky

davidakaye.bsky.social • 13 days ago

germany does have a free speech confusion, mostly involving the past year’s crackdown on gaza-related protest. but its anti-nazi speech rules are historic and, though not without problem, understandable considering the legacy of the shoah & contemporary extreme right wing violence.

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stheil.bsky.social•13 days ago

Germany and its democracy face many challenges, a too restrictive environment for expression is not one of them.

ferdeline.com•13 days ago

I would respectfully disagree. I’m not saying it is what Vance is referring to - he wouldn’t have a clue - but there are many authoritarian countries with less restrictive defamation laws than Germany has. Look at how censored Google Map reviews are. Media reports not naming perpetrators, etc.

stheil.bsky.social•13 days ago

Free expression is important, the point is that there is no reason why it should have automatic priority over other values: like reputation of individuals, or privacy of accused/convicted people. Pointing to (debatable) examples where you favour a different balance isn't really helpful. 1/2

stheil.bsky.social•13 days ago

Maybe some authoritarian regimes have less restrictive laws. The problem is they're not worth the paper they're written on: not enforced in practice because ultimately the whims of the dear leader/party override their commands. That is what the US is (sadly) heading towards at full speed. 2/2

ferdeline.com•13 days ago

I am not a free speech absolutist, and agree there is a need for a balancing act. I would argue Germany often finds the wrong outcome — and this is not cherrypicking cases, but looking objectively at how the more powerful routinely and systematically abuse German law to evade accountability.

ferdeline.com•13 days ago

I would love to see a study on the downward consequences of all this for consumers to better understand what harm is being caused.

ferdeline.com•13 days ago

To name but one example https://www.cjr.org/special_report/heiko-jessen-germany-me-too.php

davidakaye.bsky.social•13 days ago

still, vance and musk’s criticism is not in good faith. it is highly politicized and designed only to help the most extreme party in germany. they only use free speech, as in the US, as a vehicle.

mayhemmayhap.bsky.social•13 days ago

When you know your opponent will break every rule you consider good restraint, you know they mean to do more than get rid of rules.

davidakaye.bsky.social•13 days ago

if i were german i would see vance’s speech as an assault on the country’s sovereign ability to confront its horrific past. musk and vance downplay the genocide, just as they reject any need for americans to confront their own past of atrocities. it’s all of a piece.

davidakaye.bsky.social•13 days ago

fwiw i’ve been very critical of germany’s laws on online speech in the past. i have no illusions here about the risks of government control over speech. but again, that is not what vance is after. he’s about boosting a dangerously anti-immigrant party with roots in a terrible history.

openpolicy.bsky.social•13 days ago

Read your thread just after reading this:

https://bsky.app/profile/timothysnyder.bsky.social/post/3lias6l6ods2g

davidakaye.bsky.social•13 days ago

yes i agree with that of course

openpolicy.bsky.social•13 days ago

Back to that Satre quote about the right laughing as everyone else does the work required when you believe in the meaning of words.

jaymarose.bsky.social•13 days ago

Ask speech boy why “cis” will get you banned on twitter.

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