I usually go for “birth sex” and point out that it can be male, female or a mixture.
The problem with “assigned sex at birth” is that it also erases intersex people. “Assigned gender at birth” is more accurate, as that is exactly what is happening when the midwife says “It’s a boy” / “It’s a girl”
“Biological sex” is a deliberate confusion between “sex characteristics at birth” and “sex characteristics now”.
Cis people have this compulsion to find an invariant essence which remains male or female for life regardless of (substantial) changes in actual sex characteristics.
As you acknowledged in your next reply, there is an essence which is basically invariant in almost everyone (as far as we know) and that's gender identity.
So the problem with cis people is that they're locating the essence of sex in the wrong place. To the extent it exists, it's neurological.
I mean, no. You're arguing that binary trans folk should be considered really of their sex (or as I expect you'd say, gender - but they're aspects of the same thing) based on whether or not they've transitioned or how far they've been able to get in their transition which seems utterly wrongheaded.
How does it erase intersex people, though? What is genital mutilation on intersex babies if not an attempt to assign them to one of the two commonly accepted (by ignorant and prejudiced cis people) binary sex categories in the most horrifyingly concrete way?
Well indeed. Mutilating babies is a particular brutal attempt at erasing intersex variation isn’t it?
I suppose I tend to think of sex as the (non-binary, multifaceted) thing that arises in bodies across multiple times, places and cultures, whereas gender is the thing that is assigned as a social…
The sex relevant to legal Rights, Freedoms and Obligations is sex as defined in law. Until April 2025 sex was the sex recorded on the Register of Births and Deaths. After the SC that is no longer so. The old law was used eg to for 'straight marriage': one produced the birth certificates.
Thats precisely why the GRA was created, to ensure the Register of Births and Deaths was changed. Then legal sex changed. In fact that is still TRUE but just not for part III of the Equality Act 2010. Yes folks trans people with a GRC are two sexes at once. Hmmm which box to tick?
This is the problem with the GCIM thing: it is a mixture of different paradigms. Sex for law is NOT the same as sex for prostate cancer. One is about rights & the other about medicine. Different paradigms. Likewise in law Sex & Gender are identical. Not so in paradigm of evolving social discourse.
I don’t like “natal” for purely grammatical reasons. It means “relating to birth”, as in natal town or natal year or natal chromosomes. Whereas “male” or “female” ARE the sexes; they don’t relate to them.
I like that it makes it a thing that happens to you rather than some innate characteristic. "natal sex" just gets used the same as "biological" to imply we're still what we were born as. Assigned sex at birth also implies it's not the only time you can assign sex, E.g. Through transition
There's a pretty direct contradiction between that and the EHRC nonsense about service providers being able to request people's birth certificates, no?
The EHRC’s consultation directly contradicts para 202 of the Supreme Court’s decision (below) where they recognised that a service provider cannot ask about a GRC (consistent presumably) with art 8. The EHRC are here absurdly telling service providers to ignore the Supreme Court.
I just read this excellent judgement:📌
GC teacher was ALMOST assigned a little 8yo trans boy. She then proceeded to covertly monitor, access, copy and pass on confidential data about the vulnerable young child. She made his existence all about her, then played victim when she was fired & lost.🙄🤦🏽♀️
As I commented in another thread on this same judgment, it's worth noting that the phrase 'true biological sex' is not in quotes in the article, only 'for life' is. So I wonder if it is put that way in the actual judgment, or if It's the BBC putting the most negative possible spin they can on it.
This is an extraordinarily important decision despite being relatively low level of court. It cuts right across the current moves by Government and EHRC to have people outed everywhere.
Also begs the question how on earth Dr Beth Upton’s anonymity was cast aside in a tribunal considering allegations of misconduct against another party where she was merely a witness
Another thought is that if the judgement does refer to 'true biological sex' or even just to 'biological sex', even though we know these terms are inherently biased because they imply 'binary' and 'immutable', that could still be a good thing, and done with the SC judgment in mind, because...
Definitely. The fact that the law sees biological sex as binary and immutable, and has just re-enforced that position without any reference to science or medicine is ridiculous. It leaves people like me (us I assume) who have changed biological sex nowhere.
Ive used natal sex and assigned sex. Im a bit beyond arguing the metaphysical about natal sex. It never gets us beyond the circular argument of "i think, you think". Which is why the GC mob like us locked into debating it. The point is, for whatever scientific reason i has
Crippling gender dysphoria from as early as i can remember despite never knowing about trabsexuality etc. It was as natural as having brown eyes or being left handed. It couldnt be smacked, laughed, mocked, hounded or brutalised out of me. I transitioned. It stopped. I live my boring little life
just as anyone. No fuss. No announcing it, no badges, no flags, just boring me. But then these sex addled toilet door watchers and curtain twitchers came along, high as a kite on Gender Critical ideology as if peoole cant see its just plain old fashioned transphobia and hate. Suddenly im an
"activist" when i nip in for a pee and the whole country, as a cracking excuse for being pissed at fucking themselves over with Brexit and repeatedly voting for different episodes of the muppet show, are excited to know whats in my top and knickers.
The cops want a peek and feel. Loons want me to get my tits out for the lads in the gym. Politicians want me in the arena fighting lions and the Gender Creepical want me just gone.
Comments
That language belongs in the bin, but we're in for *at least* a decade of "biological sex" nonsense 🙄
It will be a long, slow slog on stuff like that
The problem with “assigned sex at birth” is that it also erases intersex people. “Assigned gender at birth” is more accurate, as that is exactly what is happening when the midwife says “It’s a boy” / “It’s a girl”
Cis people have this compulsion to find an invariant essence which remains male or female for life regardless of (substantial) changes in actual sex characteristics.
What they’re actually doing is affirming their gender identity while pretending it is something other than their gender identity.
So the problem with cis people is that they're locating the essence of sex in the wrong place. To the extent it exists, it's neurological.
I suppose I tend to think of sex as the (non-binary, multifaceted) thing that arises in bodies across multiple times, places and cultures, whereas gender is the thing that is assigned as a social…
I like ‘assigned at birth’ myself as it shows it’s nature as an imposition
GC teacher was ALMOST assigned a little 8yo trans boy. She then proceeded to covertly monitor, access, copy and pass on confidential data about the vulnerable young child. She made his existence all about her, then played victim when she was fired & lost.🙄🤦🏽♀️
Resisting going on a rant about how the NHS disrespects status and privacy...
The judgment is here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682704e48999f671f3c24379/A_v_Nottinghamshire_County_Council_2600413.2023_Judgment.pdf
I've listened to fair few biologists and there's no meaningful difference in practice after HRT etc hence we change sex.
The judges are dancing around a rigged case and science is outside their remit.
You would reach more people, when you add a good description into the Alt-text field.
That is pretty easy, especially, when your image just contain text.
This way, you support visually impaired people and everyone else, who rely on a good filled Alt-text.
#accessibility
Tits that kind of make back ache and a vagina.
The cops want a peek and feel. Loons want me to get my tits out for the lads in the gym. Politicians want me in the arena fighting lions and the Gender Creepical want me just gone.
Dumb fucking country.
I don’t whether I will achieve it but my aim is that my life is “remarkable but unremarked”.
Transitioning is remarkable. When we’re done, if we wish it, we’re done