[niche content alert] how do cryptic crossword setters decide whether they need to put a ? in or not? like they just look at their clue like "yeah to be fair i am being a bit of a bollocks here" in other news, im getting back into cryptic crosswords, turns out i dont know any words at all 🙃 - ThreadSky

monstrouspod.bsky.social • 41 days ago

[niche content alert]

how do cryptic crossword setters decide whether they need to put a ? in or not? like they just look at their clue like "yeah to be fair i am being a bit of a bollocks here"

in other news, im getting back into cryptic crosswords, turns out i dont know any words at all 🙃

Comments

juffowup.bsky.social•40 days ago

The advice I've gotten is to use a ? when a misdirect crosses the line from "using the word fairly but not in the way you'd think from the surface" to a "using the word in a way where the dictionary doesn't even support."

catnipxword.bsky.social•41 days ago

Yeah, pretty much. If there's an element of the clue that's cheekily bending some rules or definitions, you'd want a QM. Ideally as close as possible to the tricky bit.

Like Liari's Indy puzzle yesterday. 1d: Company overthrown by top US Army figure? (7)

Def is "Army figure", in a lateral way.

monstrouspod.bsky.social•41 days ago

I always know I'm in for a bit of bastardry when I see a ? 😅 though they often also are the ones that make me laugh, like your example! do !s mean anything in particular?

juffowup.bsky.social•40 days ago

In the US, including a ? or a ! for an andlit is a requited standard. I think on MyCrossword it's starting to become standard to use a ! to indicate that a word needs to be split into two pieces to parse.

monstrouspod.bsky.social•40 days ago

I didn't realise cryptics were popular in the US! Is there a lot of difference between the two styles?

juffowup.bsky.social•40 days ago

They’re not nearly as popular as in the UK; there’s no paper with a daily cryptic for example. And yeah there’s a lot of difference… US cryptics are less likely to have shared roots and more likely to reference pop culture or have phrases (rather than words) in the grid.

monstrouspod.bsky.social•38 days ago

I've been doing the NYT crossword lately (not cryptic, but fun in its own way) and the phrases without marked breaks between the words really throws me off!

catnipxword.bsky.social•41 days ago

Kind of, but that's more variable. Some schools of thought use them to indicate an &lit clue. Usually it's to indicate the clue is outrageous in some way but not as bad as a ?

(QMs can also be used to indicate definition by example, which would otherwise need a "perhaps" or "for example")

petermoorefuller.bsky.social•40 days ago

Possible QM use cases I would employ:
- being cheeky or whimsical (often with a definition)
- definition by example - eg. ‘apple?’ = fruit
- &lit indication (which technically fits into the first category)
- surface reads as a question
Probably more I haven’t thought of!

monstrouspod.bsky.social•40 days ago

I love that the more I get into crosswords, the more things show up where I ask, "How does this work?" and the answer is, "Several ways at once, and sometimes none of those at all" 😂 But that's part of the fun!

petermoorefuller.bsky.social•40 days ago

Exactly so.

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