there's been all this Discourse about whether putin's invasion of ukraine was because he was threatened by nato and honestly i think both sides miss the point. no, russia was never *militarily* threatened by nato. but putin would always be threatened by the *idea* of a free ukraine. - ThreadSky

sjshancoxli.liberalcurrents.com • 127 days ago

there's been all this Discourse about whether putin's invasion of ukraine was because he was threatened by nato and honestly i think both sides miss the point. no, russia was never *militarily* threatened by nato. but putin would always be threatened by the *idea* of a free ukraine.

Reposted from Dr. Samantha Hancox-Li

my take these days though is that basically there was always going to be a struggle of some kind between the democratic bloc and the authoritarian countries, because fundamentally the authoritarians are threatened not by this or that act or policy, but by the very idea of democracy itself

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notimeforninjas.bsky.social•127 days ago

I'm near the end of Richard Beck's Homeland and he seems to believe that everything would have been better for Ukraine if they'd just had negotiated with Putin.

sjshancoxli.liberalcurrents.com•127 days ago

can't negotiate with a tiger when your head is in its mouth!

notimeforninjas.bsky.social•127 days ago

Beck's takes on foreign were stereotypical lefty 'US bad, and is the only country with actual agency'.

ghostpalmtechnique.bsky.social•127 days ago

I made this argument on January 22, 2022:
https://www.tumblr.com/ghostpalmtechnique/674100310319480832/russia-does-not-want-ukraine-hosting-nato-troops

dakota.bsky.social•127 days ago

Of the two, Ukraines path to joining the EU was a greater motivating factor to Putin than NATO ascention IMO.

flere-imsaho.circumstances.run•127 days ago

his whole ridiculous “historical essay” preceding the second invasion is all about it. this was always about russian imperialism and velikorusskiy nationalism.

derrelldurrett.bsky.social•127 days ago

Especially one less friendly (read: subservient) to him than to the West/NATO).

I will say that it's precisely this distinction that's ignored by the "antiwar" crowd, and they never seem to be angry about the guy who crossed the border in 2014 (or 2008 in Georgia's case).

jason-keffer.bsky.social•127 days ago

My hope is by having an adversary in the Axis of Authoritarianism, liberalism can find its voice for its values and coalesce around them, even as dissenters in liberal societies turn to said axis for help.

davidjorgonson.bsky.social•127 days ago

"Fear of a revolutionary example" was something the USSR was always going on about, but it works better the other way

sjshancoxli.liberalcurrents.com•127 days ago

since the shot heard round the world in 1775, kings and princes and dictators and Central Committees around the world have been terrified, more than anything, that one day their own people would wake up and realize they didn't need a king

nothing we as america do or don't do will change that.

dmnd.me•126 days ago

Really interesting that Britain was like, you know what, you all can keep the money and we’ll even act like you’re important, but get your fucking hands off the levers of power

hurricanexyz.bsky.social•127 days ago

Honestly since they cut Charles's head off

sjshancoxli.liberalcurrents.com•127 days ago

we can abjure "regime change" as much as we like, and yet it will always be manifest that we prefer democracies and would like there to be more of them. whether we pursue that militarily or diplomatically, economically or culturally, or even not at all--the power of democracy as an idea remains

sjshancoxli.liberalcurrents.com•127 days ago

anyways the new cold war started twenty years ago and it's good that america is finally starting to recognize that

now comes the hard part: actually winning it

https://www.liberalcurrents.com/lessons-for-a-new-cold-war/

minimallycrazy.bsky.social•127 days ago

The good news is that it looks like we can sleepwalk through a lot of the winning, the bad news is it looks like we're sleepwalking through a lot of opportunities to win even harder

mikedavis.bsky.social•127 days ago

gonna feel dumb if we lose the new cold war to the people we beat in the _last_ cold war.

endtheright.bsky.social•127 days ago

Those who argue the former are mostly aware that they're doing it in bad faith.

asazernik.bsky.social•126 days ago

The way I'd put it: Ukraine in the EU was an existential threat to the Putin regime in a way that Ukraine in NATO wasn't.

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