Got to attend a presentation today about a Toronto-Chicago passenger rail connection through Detroit/Windsor! Amtrak has been able to negotiate using the CPKC Detroit River Rail Tunnel once a day without affecting freight operations. (1/2) - ThreadSky

chanface.bsky.social • 56 days ago

Got to attend a presentation today about a Toronto-Chicago passenger rail connection through Detroit/Windsor!

Amtrak has been able to negotiate using the CPKC Detroit River Rail Tunnel once a day without affecting freight operations. (1/2)

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Comments

jerome.jasette.facil.services.ap.brid.gy•56 days ago

@chanface.bsky.social Who organized the presentation?

However i'm afraid that Trump will be cutting hardcore into Amtrak before it gets done..

oclsc.bsky.social•55 days ago

Congress might actually help here. A few noisy jerks notwithstanding, Amtrak has broad bipartisan support. It's an issue voters really seem to care about, especially in middle-of-country states.

greaterlaker.bsky.social•41 days ago

The services in Michigan are also paid for by MDOT. It seems to me if Amtrak had a hammer taken to them, someone else theoretically could pick up the routes in Michigan for them if the subsidy remains available. That could mean VIA, potentially.

oclsc.bsky.social•41 days ago

I don't think MDOT was responsible for the demise of the International, but it was certainly MDOT's choice to flip the Blue Water's schedule. Ridership went way up, so I think they got it right.

greaterlaker.bsky.social•41 days ago

MDOT absolutely was responsible. They saw the lowered ridership after 9/11 and unreliability of the train and told AMTK they needed to revert to the original arrangement. I experienced it all go down real time and was on the last Sunday 685/367 in 2004.

oclsc.bsky.social•41 days ago

VIA are in a much-weaker position than Amtrak. Don't count on them contributing much. We'll be lucky if Canada has any trains outside the Corridor in a decade.

greaterlaker.bsky.social•41 days ago

The funding for the new long distance cars seems to suggest VIA will be around for the forseeable future but yes the slow decline of services outside the prime corridor do seem to suggest it’s very much on life support. But if MDOT offered money in the event Amtrak ended, I think they’d take it.

oclsc.bsky.social•41 days ago

The funding may well vanish if PP becomes PM. We've seen this movie before. I won't believe it until I see the cars on the property, if I live that long.

christosilvia.bsky.social•56 days ago

https://youtu.be/AOuEhc7gsx4?si=QB0Fs_2V-aEi0OS_&t=0m11s

goodbyeplease.com•56 days ago

Interesting--they plan to reactivate the old Michigan Central station in Corktown and bypass New Center. You'd really have to; that's a long backup move otherwise.

peregrinekate.bsky.social•56 days ago

That would be HUGE, to get MI Central back online (in the old sense) as a functioning station!

wk1998.bsky.social•56 days ago

Great news!

jakelandau.ca•56 days ago

Will there be transfers on a single itinerary to other Amtrak or VIA services?

mclean.bsky.social•56 days ago

Chicago urbanists 🤝 Toronto urbanists

chanface.bsky.social•55 days ago

Sidewalks Toronto 🤝 Sidewalks Chicago

radplanets.bsky.social•56 days ago

I feel like it would be wayyyy more useful for Detroit-Toronto passengers to clear customs stateside rather than in Windsor. No facilities at Michigan Central tho, so I get it.

lexande.bsky.social•55 days ago

No facilities anywhere, you'd have to create new ones for this no matter what.

radplanets.bsky.social•55 days ago

No immigration facilities, that’s true, but at least there’s already a station building in Windsor. Nothing at all in Detroit.

lexande.bsky.social•55 days ago

The current Windsor station is not on the tunnel approach, you'd need a new one.

lexande.bsky.social•55 days ago

Seems like it would make most sense to extend/reroute the existing VIA Toronto-Windsor trains to Detroit & have border control at the current station there, with timed transfers to/from the existing Pontiac-Detroit-Chicago Amtrak trains. But I guess VIA is less interested in new service than Amtrak.

greaterlaker.bsky.social•41 days ago

The fact that they don’t want to run this as a combined train like the old International and the present day, Maple Leaf speaks volumes to this, I think

lexande.bsky.social•41 days ago

The delays at the border on the Maple Leaf and Adirondack are nuts, any new services should definitely avoid that.

greaterlaker.bsky.social•41 days ago

You’d need preclearance facilities to avoid that. Seems like they’ve been trying to do that at Montreal + Vancouver for a decade now :/

kuuma.bsky.social•56 days ago

i want this to be real so bad (detroiter who enjoys gigging in both toronto and chicago)

prrsignal.bsky.social•56 days ago

At some point the Class 1's got together to pretend that a single passenger train somehow degrades their completely unscheduled operation. Maybe @railmag.bsky.social can explain what changed after ~2005.

railmag.bsky.social•56 days ago

I don’t think it was really direct collusion. I think the gradual shift to unscheduled freight traffic led the railroads to view Amtrak’s need for schedule windows as a hinderance to their operations.

prrsignal.bsky.social•56 days ago

But if they don't run to a schedule, how does it hinder their operations?

railmag.bsky.social•56 days ago

Check out this thread by @a320lga.bsky.social

https://bsky.app/profile/a320lga.bsky.social/post/3lekqsc7u2k24

prrsignal.bsky.social•56 days ago

I saw that before. I am seeing a theme of capacity issues, which makes me wonder if we have stats on train movements now vs then and also studies on bottlenecks and utilization.

Like is the capacity issue the headline TPH or TPH with 10 mile segments out for MoW?

...

prrsignal.bsky.social•56 days ago

Or is the issue caused by uneven throughput. On certain lines I'll see nothing for hours then a massive wave of trains.

I've just never had someone come out and write paragraphs on why a passenger RT screws up a line so badly, except possiblity Hot Times with CNIC

chanface.bsky.social•56 days ago

I'm assuming it means Ad hoc scheduling, which means you want the flexibility of being able to run it whenever.

mrpresident1776.bsky.social•56 days ago

I get the sense it is a negotiation tactic to 1) turn away folks who are not serious or lack funding and 2) set the stage for extracting the maximum possible benefit.

jv22.bsky.social•56 days ago

This is exciting, but really need to find a way to cut that trip time down. 10 hours is just not that practical and the Detroit-Chicago leg is already prone to delays on top of the 4 hour scheduled trip

longbranchmike.bsky.social•56 days ago

It's about 10 hours to drive from Toronto to Chicago, including a couple meal breaks & fill ups, & some time at Customs. Probably more than 10 hours to drive, I did the drive in the 90s & it was 10 hours, including some summer construction. Much more relaxing on the train!

neipate.bsky.social•56 days ago

why not fly? i’ve flown from nyc to toronto, which is an 8 hour drive, about 50 flights / day

vicocat.bsky.social•55 days ago

Flying is the worst form of travel for the environment and even though it’s a short flight you’d still have to deal with airport security and all the delays that come with airports on both ends.

longbranchmike.bsky.social•55 days ago

Plus airports are almost always way out of cities, so if on a short haul flight you can easily spend longer getting to & from the airports than actually in the air. Flying is a false short haul time economy.

neipate.bsky.social•52 days ago

i like trains too but even the fastest trains would be slower than flying + getting to/from the airport for toronto to chicago ( nyc to chicago is borderline). Toronto has a short haul airport that’s literally walking distance from downtown but it’s a unique case

longbranchmike.bsky.social•56 days ago

Hate being shoehorned into a claustrophobic seat w/ recycled air where no-one else wears a mask.

akdetrick.bsky.social•56 days ago

HSR can replace flights if we really invest in it, but not every rail line needs to replace a flight to be useful.

Being able to go directly from Boulder Creek, MI all the way to Toronto without driving is a social and economic win

awwhalen.bsky.social•56 days ago

Instead of switching, couldn’t we form an agreement to run 1/2 the trains as @amtrak.com and the other @viarailcanada.bsky.social? Maybe a @brightlinetc.bsky.social North as a third option?

crzwdjk.bsky.social•56 days ago

Everyone has to get off the train at the border anyway, this way allows all checks to happen at a single facility in Windsor.

chanface.bsky.social•56 days ago

Apparently, we used to have a connection to Chicago through Sarnia/Port Huron tunnel!

Here are more slides on the capital project components, business case, and timelines. (2/2)

greaterlaker.bsky.social•41 days ago

How much did they speak about US-side improvements? Does Amtrak and MDOT have the resources for the platform at MCS and the PTC installation on CSAO?

theurbannomad.bsky.social•56 days ago

Yep, the Amtrak/VIA international limited. It had an interesting mishmash of equipment. Now it’s the Blue Water and Corridor service to Sarnia

greaterlaker.bsky.social•41 days ago

And the photo you posted is my hometown station of East Lansing, MI. I grew up half a mile from this station and The International was a gigantic factor in why I love trains and why I’m a passenger advocate today. The US-side including LNS remains served today by The Blue Water.

oclsc.bsky.social•55 days ago

No apparently about it! I rode the International many times despite the inconvenient schedule. The Detroit/Windsor route will likely attract many more passengers, though.