They even reengineered their cell phone service to more accuratly be able to track someone on it. Normal telecoms go from phone to service. but China added a service to phone so they can spy more effectively.
You shouldn't use *any* AI tool. AI in general has one thing "going for it": being the largest accelerator of climate change in recent years due to its unbelievably huge energy requirements.
I understand that the current state of AI is merely to make money? Completely pointless and literally impossible that it is connected to 'intelligence'.
I have to learn and use AI at work - outside of that I have no intention of using any AI for personal use, regardless of the source. Maybe someday, but it seems unlikely I'll feel enough trust to ever do so.
Serious question. What will china do with my data that is somehow more nefarious than what American companies do with it? The Americans have already sold it to southeast Asian scam centers. My health data has been stolen 2x now. Who cares if china has my cell phone data lol
I live IN China and I wish they actually had this amazing data proficiency they're supposed to have. Maybe then I wouldn't have to fill out all my details every time I do absolutely any little bureaucratic thing because this office, department, whatever doesn't have any damn record of me.
Also, we are not Chinese. They have no jurisdiction over us but the United States and Western nations that all do this do. Why should I fear China selling my data in some bulk sale to make money over the current oligarchy using my data to disappear me for "wrongthink" against their lord and master?
None of you can ever explain what exact nefarious shit china is going to do with our data!!! Just call everyone who asks a tankie, no thoughts required
Why? I don't like AI, but my objections are largely based around plagiarism, the environmental damage it causes and its potential use to undermine workers rights. This AI model has significant improvements on all those fronts compared to what already exists. Not perfect, by any means. But better.
I like the fact there is an AI I could use, if I wanted to, that will work on the VRAM of a budget graphics card, which isn't attached to some hyper-polluting data centre somewhere..
I don't see much use for AI generally, and it will never be the profit-generating machine investors wish it will be. There are some niche uses in data analysis and coding, but the prose it churns out is slop, as a primary source it's terrible, and the "art" it generates is shit.
But having an open source one that prevents Microsoft and Google and OpenAI from profiting from this technology is good. The technology is not going to disappear, and divorcing it from these people is our best hope of mitigating the harm it could potentially cause.
Finally - I just want to say I really don't mind the CCP having my data. It's not an issue for me. I am much more comfortable with them having it than Palantir or my own government.
Do you see the current hostility and suspicion towards China as a repeat of the Yellow Peril phenomenon that happened about 100 years ago in the US and Europe? These things tend to go in cycles, after all.
I’m tired of hearing China always painted as the great evil in the world. The US has done more to radicalize me against the US than anyone else, I couldn’t care less about China at this point.
This is why I feel the appropriate response is to laugh from the sidelines and write your own stuff. Every interaction I've had with LLM's in a personal or professional setting spits out the most generic, passive-aggressive tripe.
I agree using the cloud model is still an issue for the same reasons as western models, but if you have a computer with a gpu less than 6 years old, it probably can run a version of this model completely locally very well. I couldn’t find deep bias in favor of the ccp in my questioning of it
They certainly don't. I've seen clients upload documents with employee data, financial statements etc into ChatGPT with zero censoring.
Anything I give to an LLM I consider public or compromised.
I guess my biggest gripe in comparison is that orgs use those other services for clear purposes of communication, storage etc. & typically have an idea of good practices, even if ignored. Meanwhile small business owners are dumping their confessions into LLM to 'keep up with the joneses'.
The never seen before footage 🤣. It's frustrasting to see history repeat itself with marketing and hype riding so far ahead of education. Gotta make sales before you teach people so the bar graph points up I guess.
Deep Seek is hilariously compromised but it was necessary for tax payers and investors to realize how swindled they have been by the overstated magic of western LLMs. It is also good for consumer rights, considering the abhorrent price of ChatGPT should now - in theory - decrease to be competitive.
Why not? If you answer about data I don't care. That battle was lost long ago, our data is everywhere and constantly bought and sold at this point and it wasn't China leading that charge, it was western businesses.
(Blue) MAGA has a nationalism hammer, and everything is a nail to them, even when it clearly isn’t.
This is about open vs proprietary. The scientific method vs MBA con-artistry. Scrappy startups vs bloated bureaucracies. How can you not hear that? The echo of all our favorite tech history tropes?
PS: in this one context, Meta deserves credit, not scorn. Llama is just as open as DeepSeek R1. They shouldn’t be lumped in with Amazon, Google, ClosedAI, etc.
Still unclear about what the CPC can do with 99.999% of American data that poses a greater threat than Facebook radicalizing families into right wing psycho cults
They can also use the data to instill chinese propaganda to undermine western countries… to be fair, everyone always needs to critically analyse any information on the internet
What I am saying is that most Americans that are currently working will not see pensions. Not because they will be dead (but who knows) but because pensions are no longer offered to the average American.
So you're unaware their buildings are collapsing on citizens and there's covered up fires destroying things regularly, then? That their office chairs send people to the hospital for internal punctures when the rids explode up into their rectums? Chinese made things have no oversight.
I love the logical disconnect where all of these things that happen are always faultlessly covered up....except for the guys claiming it.
Everyone in China has a phone and records everything; nope, perfect suppression. The people themselves rebuke it; all paid. Foreigners go there; all paid.
Yeah unlike in America where condos in Miami don’t collapse due to negligent lack of maintenance, fires never destroy entire cities’ neighborhoods, and corporations are regularly held accountable for their malicious actions. Get a grip.
You don't have to do a comparison....there's literally not a single shred of reality in anything he said. The east coast of China is a typhoon zone, and the Taiwan earthquakes can be felt as far north as Ningbo, Hangzhou, and Shanghai sometimes. Half the place would be wiped off the map every year.
Then why do you keep spouting this racist nonsense? If you are supposedly on the left and a friend of the people, you really need to re-evaluate this position.
If you are pro-Palestine, then you should know that China repeatedly supports the Palestinian cause at the UN and other international legal bodies. That they hosted the meeting between all Palestinian resistance factions so they could form a united front?
You type this on a phone most likely made in china, you drive a car where a large number of parts either come from China or the whole thing is made in China. You go to the hospital were the medical devices were assembled in China. Your post is completely delirious.
I mean META sells our data to various companies if I’m going to get good value from it than I don’t care and beside it’s not like I’m looking at anything malicious it’s just me learning new skills.
Once you realize China is just the USA in a different coat of paint and the distrust is fueled by American propaganda, you stop caring. China is the next super power, accept it.
I’m in the UK, and I think I’d rather take my chances with the CCP than creepy fascism-enabling US tech corps. Not that I touch LLMs & generative tools.
Yesterday I deleted my accounts for the following:
Google
Amazon
Adobe
Twitter/X
Netflix
Meta & Microsoft will be gone by the end of the week.
At this point it's starting to feel like these china apps are the only ones that aren't brainwashing their users with only news/posts/content that fit the narrative of the millionaire/billionaire that owns it. So I'll use them and feel just fine about it until America can get it's shit together
I mean CCP isn't eneficial to anyone either. Thought I do support the *existence* of DeepSeek beause of the panic it has managed to create to help burst the AI bubble in the tech sector, even if its claims are fundamentally unfounded.
Still advise against willingly using Chinese apps, though.
I think the hundreds of millions of Chinese who’ve seen their standards of living improve dramatically over the last thirty years might dispute that the CCP “isn’t [beneficial] to anyone.”
If they want our information they can just buy it from data brokers anyhow. What's one more country surveiling me going to do? If our government cares about privacy, they could do like the EU
Just to add: yeah trust those who would rather package their closed source tech behind an expensive monthly subscription (while also taking your tax dollars) vs. those who released it free and open sourced.
oh no i called xi winnie the pooh wait i live in america what can they do to me? if this is part of an Anti-AI stance i can respect that, but we have an obligation to make this president fail. And if our elected reps won't do it than it's up to winnie to whip his dayglo ass
Pretty ironic that Chinese AI is released in open source, so you can run it locally without concerns. (It’s also very easy and not hardware demanding for running it)
It's a good line, I'll admit. But realistically, I don't trust either side here. And the tech broligarchy frankly seems like they're in a better position to ruin my life at least due to mere proximity.
idk ChatCCP tiktok etc is selling yourself and your countrymen to the enemy. like how much are you even worth in your mind, that you get yourself used that cheap?
"The enemy"
It's like you're personally at war with China. Do they know? Did you formally declare war? Or are you keeping it secret so you can keep buying all the cool stuff?
You should not be using ClosedAI’s chatGPT — it is a con. Use AI that you can run locally, whose training methodology has been published and can be validated by peer review.
This isn’t about China vs America. It’s about open vs proprietary.
We live in a globalized world. It’s not embarrassing that China improved the state of the art, but it is downright humiliating that commies had to remind us of the power of freedom and openness. Monopolies can’t innovate or compete.
The notion that you should "trust" any LLM to be objectively honest is naive at best. At least with open source, we might achieve enough transparency for you to know what you're buying.
I feel like I'm going to regret getting involved in this at all. I'm in no way like "anti-China" or anything, but I see a lot of people saying that the model isn't censored if you run it locally, so I ran the obvious test. deepseek-r1:14b with an open-webui frontend:
Hmm haven't heard about it not being censored but I did the same test (with a chat interface I built 😎) and eventually I got it to talk about it after some simple prompt jailbreaking. I used deepseek-r1:14b.
No listen, it's totally normal for people to get really aggressive about a certain topic and to repeat the same exact sentiment even when it's been posted seventeen times already. /s They're bots. Speak your mind.
Nah, I'll give them all the data they want, I hope they win. I can't imagine fearing any government more than I fear our own. Besides, you could just run your own instance. It's open source.
I’m tired of the mistrust of Chinese people and businesses. At this point I’d rather trust the Chinese who are blatant about what they do over American companies that lie to us constantly. It’s a form of racism, and I’d like to see it stop.
This take is barely spicy, but it's still enough to get the sinophobes screeching that you're a tankie.
Their own propaganda bubble is so extreme that reality could never hope to live up to it. Show them a dead body, and they'll say you're tankie because they expect a mountain of them.
Can't imagine what that would be like. A psychopath ruling with an iron fist with no fear of consequences and a recently released mob willing to do his bidding. Constructing a concentration camp outside of their borders to make civil rights abuses easier. Minorities terrified.
Yeah but can you actually without Googling it tell me one thing that Xi Jinping has done that is worse than things that trump has done. Cause if not I would say that it's still cause he's more Chinese than trump
I’m not entirely sure what your point is but tbh I’d say trump is worse than xi. The difference is you can talk shit about trump and not get disappeared. Although I wonder how long that will last
The difference is that absolutely anyone living absolutely anyone in the world can ask Chat GPT what happened on those occasions and they get the truth.
Yup. I've seen an abysmal amount of misunderstanding all over the internet, with folks convinced that this language model is just maliciously lying about stuff like Tiananmen. They were all unaware that you can just install and run this locally, and the responses won't be censored.
How does that invalidate the fact that wishing for a model that praises China's governmental values to win is not a good stance to have if you value democracy?
Buddy I've been reading through these responses and genuinely you are swallowed up by American propaganda. Please for your own education, make a temp red note and just scroll Chinese content and see how they lives and beliefes ACTUALLY are and what they actually think. China wants to be left alone
No you misunderstand, my point is that your argument holds no weight as it implied chatgpt isn't as censored when it is, every AI is going to have it's fucking limits you can't be expected unfettered access to everything on a whim. It's a tool to help acquire information, and cut back on monotony.
The Chinese censorship doesn’t apply when ran locally. I haven’t checked safety sensors like asking it how I can cause harm because I’m not a freak. Who cares about safety censorship
It doesn't really matter that it doesn't spit the answer out about Tiananmen Square without additional prompting, locally, because that subject has already been extensively researched and the information anyone would be looking for is available, unless they are trying to do a weak gotcha
Read my post again. Someone derided the fact that a lot of western leaders are cautious about using "ChatCCP", which I assume they mean the DeepSeek app. I replied that the model has deep biases on various subjects. The fact you can jailbreak out of that, doesn't invalidate this need for caution.
Yes it does censor even when you run it locally and it makes sense because Chinese companies have to follow their law which means no mention of certain events or certain cartoons but everyone is aware of these censorships so realistically it doesn’t matter much.
That's absolutely fair, but I still find it worthwhile to raise awareness about the fact that AI can be a program you run on your computer, not a site you log in (and leave info on) to.
Comments
Stfu 🤡
Still a braindead "China bad" post, but it would have at least been funny.
I’ll use whichever provides best cost to performance
Have movies like WALL-E, Terminator, and 2001: A Space Odyssey taught people nothing?
I'm not from the US, I don't have a priority about who will steal my data.
Open source and local running it is. Also I will network check if the app sends anything out.
Anything I give to an LLM I consider public or compromised.
And yes, that includes Google, Apple, Microsoft, Dropbox... you name it.
Cloud storage is convenient but you can only trust what you directly control.
Tell me why China is currently more dangerous to me than Meta, Amazon, and OpenAI.
Also, for the enterprise, Alibab has an even better model, apparently.
This is about open vs proprietary. The scientific method vs MBA con-artistry. Scrappy startups vs bloated bureaucracies. How can you not hear that? The echo of all our favorite tech history tropes?
Feel free to expand on your point though in case I’ve misunderstood.
If not, or if I’m not offered one, I can use some of the money I paid to get my own pension from a pension provider.
Those who ‘don’t see’ pensions only have themselves to blame.
Everyone in China has a phone and records everything; nope, perfect suppression. The people themselves rebuke it; all paid. Foreigners go there; all paid.
Yesterday I deleted my accounts for the following:
Google
Amazon
Adobe
Twitter/X
Netflix
Meta & Microsoft will be gone by the end of the week.
Deepseek can run locally and is open source.
Please just question what hate or distrust you have for China, you’ve been given anti-China propaganda your whole life.
Still advise against willingly using Chinese apps, though.
A government in which one person has uncontrolled or unlimited authority over others; the government or power of an absolute monarch.
One-party rule where the leader has a very strong influence meets this definition in my eyes - regardless of which title you give to the leader.
better use chatgpt and gemini, american data stealing is so much better 🥰🥰🥰
use ChatMAGA ❤️❤️
It's like you're personally at war with China. Do they know? Did you formally declare war? Or are you keeping it secret so you can keep buying all the cool stuff?
We live in a globalized world. It’s not embarrassing that China improved the state of the art, but it is downright humiliating that commies had to remind us of the power of freedom and openness. Monopolies can’t innovate or compete.
Their own propaganda bubble is so extreme that reality could never hope to live up to it. Show them a dead body, and they'll say you're tankie because they expect a mountain of them.
Your argument is bizarre.
Not the same, my friend.
Are you sure you know what you are talking about? The model is completely unmodified on my home server, directly pulled from the ollama library.
(Its down rn because so many people are using it)
I’m not only happy that ChatGPT bros lost money, but that AI is not behind a paywall that allows only certain people to use it fully.
I’m also happy cause it genuinely pisses off people like you who don’t understand it.