Which is not to endorse that position substantively! But the politics of this are pretty damn clear and clearer than almost anything else other than inflation.
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Yeah, it was a political stunt that worked. Trump needed that issue to win. But the Dems were very late to the dance. They could have gotten that bill done in 2022 and defused the issue.
It only "worked" because MSMers like Chris Hayes ALLOWED it to. Every single story on immigration should have started and ended with how the problem might've been solved if not for Trump and the cowardly Republicans sabotaging a genuine bipartisan effort to address it.
VP Harris was an excellent candidate. She ran an amazing campaign against fascists.
It's pretty damn clear Musk, donating over $140M + use of the largest media platform in the world to support Trump & to harm Harris, was the major tipping point. It was a clear illegal contribution
THAT'S THE STORY!
Hard to ignore the Biden administrations role in this by completely ceding the topic of immigration to republicans instead of pushing back like they did just 4 years ago
100%, see also President Obama's role in creating the deportation infrastructure that Trump used before and will use again. If we'd humanized & defended immigrants instead of scapegoating them, maybe we wouldn't have handed Rs such an effective cudgel. Don't go further down this failed path.
To understand why people were upset, compare prices in 2020 to 2024. Telling them that inflation was only up 2.1% in October doesn't mean anything politically.
Inflation spiked in 2021, until Jun 22. Then it stopped abruptly. Look at the data. We’ve had about 2.1% inflation since then. Talking about inflation as a problem today is a lie. Wait two months for Repugnicans to start bragging that they killed inflation.
I'm familiar with the data. Thanks. Historically, almost all administrations that have experienced significant inflation on their watch have been punished by the voters. The sweet voice of reason is useless to you.
Perhaps a little education that when the inflation rate goes down, it doesn’t mean prices are going down. It means the rate of price is going up has gone down.
Yes, and that’s all you can expect when inflation dies. It would take a disastrous recession to bring prices down to where they were 5 yrs ago. I don’t see anyone expecting 25c gas like we had in 1970. If the price of gas now is the same as 10 yrs ago, then inflation is as dead as you want it.
Allowing poor people to immigrate is a good deed. But there are many other good deeds that are far more efficient and do not provide fuel for the extremist Republicans to demagogue so easily.
I’d argue that Trump successfully tied inflation to his narrative that it was being caused by illegal immigration. Because there was never an effective counter narrative, being on the right side of border security, for many voters, meant being on the right side of inflation as well.
What’s not clear though is what progressives actually want on the border. Progressives I knew were rabidly anti-Biden over the bipartisan border bill, even though they were ostensibly pro-secure borders, pro-making the process faster, and pro-deporting actual criminals. The border was made partisan.
Chris hayes has interview Murphy about this law many times on TV and on his podcast - Murphy readily admits that the law was " following the GOP instructions to the letter"
it was so fucking stupid LMAO I was tweeting at him and other moronic Dems fucking 12 months ago how stupid that strategy was and how it's gonna blow up in your face bc all the public sees is DEMS adopting the trump/miller premise and policy on immigration so they will move even more to the right!
and boom 5 months later mass deportation is polling at 60% LMAO as Dems and murphy just never mention again how that strategy of adopting that far right anti immigrant law is so brilliant and going to help us so much hahahahaahh
"pro making the process faster" LMAO the law permanently abolishes asylum whenever DHS and the President say so and doubles the size of ICE and gives them new authority to conduct mass raids anywhere throughout the United States of America
Every never Trump, Republican and Indie in my life wanted pre-pandemic, interest rates and pre-pronoun culture. Many did not buy that Harris could resist being pressured by progressive policy activists. I think the election was a mixture of issues that the Dems need to correct.
Who cares about politics if we are no longer going to be a democracy? Is anyone going to figure out their plans for future elections etc? Doesn’t matter what’s popular in a failed democracy, no?
You are overreacting. Wildly overreacting. Trump is authoritarian, but he's not going to destroy democracy. All of the constitutional safeguards remain in place. Yes, there is a potential threat from some of the MAGA crazies and we need to pay attention to that. But that is all.
Your comforting assumptions are not evidence… what “safeguards?” You mean… the courts? The military? What are you imagining will safeguard us when he announces that crisis X will make it impossible to have the next election safely? Do you doubt he’d like to suspend it? I’m confused.
The Congress, the courts, the military, our norms and traditions, and the people. One good thing about living in a nation armed to the teeth is that it's very hard to conquer it. Ultimately, we safeguard our freedoms ourselves. You won't like the next four years very much, but we'll be fine.
Immigration was the key factor in the UK leaving the EU, although mostly based on false narratives creating fear for jobs, security and public services overload. However, in Harris's case misogyny probably swung it in the margins.
My mom cited the border as a reason not to vote Democrat. I asked her what should be done to undocumented people who live here peacefully and work jobs. Her personal policy prescriptions were to the left of the Democrats because she's not a monster at heart, but now I think she's stupid...
She has no idea what Republicans really intend to do. She just knows that they complain about a broken immigration system, and that was good enough for her to sign off on what will surely end with family separation, camps, and suffering.
OK, but part of issue w/ the post-e analysis is some folks who don't want Dems to move right on a particular issue (for reasonable reasons!) are arguing that that issue didn't have a neg electoral effect, when it did. 1st we need to analyze free of ulterior ideological motives, then talk messaging
At least in terms of emphasis Dems were to the LEFT of Biden a few yrs ago (Dreamers, immediate legal status, pathway to citizenship) and polled better than the GOP’s savagery. What happened????
When the Ds allowed GOP to spend years defining issues by employing a tiered messaging machine -- a micro grassroots[micro blogs/podcasts/youtube/facebook accts] that fed into midtier[CPAC/Rogan/etc] that fed into national media[Fox/Newsmax/Twitter(X)/etc] the Dems are left to fight on losing turf.
Additionally, migrant crime was scapegoated and victims families were paraded for effect. Meanwhile, American white children shoot the school's to s**t and we offer thoughts and prayers!
In your opening segment, you mentioned Ontario Premiere Doug Ford, but you showed a picture of Rob,who was the 'cocaine' mayor of Toronto. Rob's antics made the press worldwide, but he died in 2016. Doug Ford was well-known in the 80's as a hash dealer!
(5) it's really about fear of the unknown & something different. A good leader, a truly talented one, doesn't play to fears, but to our common aspirations.
Especially in a country that does not have blood and ancestry in common, but one built on assent to a principle that all people are equal.
(4) the Alien and Sedition act, the Chinese exclusion act, the internment of the Japanese Americans in WWII and many other laws and acts that were aimed at only certain groups. It's the easiest thing in the world to play to fears and hatreds. Race is a part of that, but
(3) locals. It's fear of the different and new. This fear is not held by ALL humans, but I would say at least half seem to have this fear. Like many fears, it's not rational. Politicians, to their eternal shame, have played to that fear for forever. It's how we got the
(2) and most of those groups are "white". It's the fear somehow, there will be so many of "them" that our culture will be changed, that they will work for less money & employers will hire the immigrant instead of the native population, and the fear, even, that they will prove "better" than the
They do pay taxes, and get no benefits. The ignorant fucks don’t even see that the rich people are picking their pockets. Also there are sales taxes. It’s just Idiocracy in real time.
To a large degree, yes.
Have you ever read Stephen Alexander's "Cornerstone" speech? If so, you recognize many white people still think exactly like that. They think America was made for white people then & remains so today. A country where they are on top, all others must be secondary.
(1) I think that's partly true. But immigrant hate is not new. America has hated every new group (British and German excepted...ahem) starting with the French. Then the Chinese, the Irish, the near eastern countries like Romania and Hungary and Poland, the Italians, Vietnamese, Haitians, (Con't)
I think we also did that and it didn’t do anything. I am not a politician, thankfully. I am going to call it as I see it. I even softened it, calling it “race-based”.
It was pretty obvious tjat I was talking about the yt trump supporting faction, god only knows why POC voted for Trump but a lot of folks said that they themselves immigrated “the right way”
If you are middle class or below, your struggles are not being really dealt with by either party, except new party is offering a strawman solution that makes sense if you do not understand the issues.
Immigration is the boogie man for: increase housing costs, crime and homelessness.
Also, sadly, for all of the bullshit & nonsense, the winning move of the election may just have been Trump getting Johnson to kill the bipartisan border deal. If that passes, the admin can point to a win & action, gives them a different message to swing states & Latinos, the race changes.
I've talked to Hispanics
From the border area that have been here several generations that are not happy with new immigrants that undercut their wages. But that doesn't explain what others are worried about.
Instead of organizing against the people paying the abhorrent slave wages, they cast a simple vote to condemn their neighbors to concentration camps. We deserve what’s coming
I’ve been in construction for 4 decades. What you are describing is basically a game whack a mole. The far easier solution is to get a handle on the border and stop allowing asylum seekers to enter the job market in an unregulated manner.
We have always utilized immigrant labor. The last decade has broken the system and stymied and repressed wage growth in the trades. Unions have done a good job of maintaining wages but the overwhelming majority of labor is not organized.
You are seeing BC labor revolting at the ballot box.
BC labor is bearing the brunt of the downside of immigration (suppressed wage growth etc…)
Society as a whole needs immigration but the current volume of immigrants simply cannot be sustained without further depressing wages.
Did it ever occur to you that it’s not only Hispanics that are the ones working those jobs? You’re soooo close to figuring out why we as democrats are hemorrhaging blue collar voters.
My favorite part is when we tell BC workers that immigrants do jobs Americans don’t want. Talk about tone deaf
No need to be condescending, I work in construction with both citizens and none citizens, Hispanics and non-Hispanics. I was relaying my personal experience.
Sorry if it came off as condescending. The inability of those outside of our industry to simply acknowledge that immigration at its current levels can have a negative impact as well as a positive impact is infuriating.
Our industry relies on immigrants. But the current levels are not sustainable
What do you think happens when then are more laborers than jobs? Just an honest question.
Do you think the people doing the labor benefit of those who hire the laborers benefit?
Now ask yourself why the corporate media has been pounding the table telling you immigrants don’t harm labor/wages
We as democrats are hemorrhaging labor in this country because we refuse to acknowledge that the recent influx of immigrants has a stifling effect on wage growth. In construction here is CA I was a hiring manager for 14 years. The market is flooded with undocumented labor that hurts labor.
The overall benefits of PLANNED/CONTROLLED immigration are absolutely a positive for this nation and a vital part of our history.
The recent trend of millions of asylum seekers flooding labor markets is hurting our own workforce in those trades. We need responsible controlled immigration.
Democrats could simply become a labor party and support unions instead of barbed wire and private prison stocks, but we all know they won’t. Spare me Biden being “the best labor president since FDR”; that’s not saying anything considering we’ve been fascist-adjacent ever since
Since its founding our country has done this and…we are barely better, from the racism pov, than 200 years ago. We compromised in the constitution, reconstruction, and when MAGA showed up. Nope, that’s not the way.
I’m not saying necessarily compromise fully but you have to win elections or else nothing matters. People got mad at Obama for not supporting gay marriage when he ran, but guess what… he won and nominated S.C. justices who legalized gay marriage
(this isn't to say Clinton/Gore didn't do many other very bad things in order to appeal to racists; but the modern data obsessed pundits/consultants would certainly advise them to condemn interracial marriage; what would you tell them to do)
Not necessarily, just enough to win elections and push forward in a positive direction. Whatever will maximize progress in the long run. Lincoln wasn’t pro abolition until halfway into term, but guess what, he managed to win the civil war and abolish slavery anyways. Actions >>> words
Yes. Some things are non-negotiable from a moral standpoint. Want to argue that a marginal tax rate should be lower or higher? Fine. Want to argue other humans don’t have all the same rights you do? Nope. Not willing to compromise there.
It’s harder to win elections when they are rigged to entrench the racists and treating them as partners in good faith leaves those systems in place. When Dems win they never focus on fixing those structures. They jump to the middle and we lather rinse and repeat.
If the electorate is so racist how the hell else are you supposed to win??? Just give up? Deal with the reality you have it the one you wish you had. How the hell are you supposed to get rid of the senate or electoral college without a constitutional amendment
Obama used his filibuster proof majority to get healthcare, which while important and impactful was less impactful than doing something like abolishing the EC. Or abolishing the filibuster. Or create a federal anti-SLAPP statute.
I don't see it that way. The numbers of American Trans population is so low, I have yet to meet one. Dems care about others, but we can't support them without our own stability.
I'm just a retired RN, so socializing/jobs is a factor here
There must be regional differences. I am in California and I have met several trans people. I’m sure there are several more who are so well assimilated to their post-transition gender that you would never know it. And I don’t run in any special circles that you’d expect to be rich in trans folk.
Did any ad run more than their trans ad(s)? Doubt they would've run it like they did and updated it, etc. if it wasn’t doing gangbusters for them. They are obsessed with trans and somehow that’s dems fault
I don't disagree, but as a swing state voter (N.C.) I can tell you at least 8/10 Trump ads attacking Harris were attacking her on trans issues; everything from trans athletes to taxpayer-funded transgender surgeries for prisoners.
Was it inflation or the border? No. But it was very much a factor.
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And the problem is Rs know this, and consider it an incentive to avoid fixing the problem.
Best hope for Dems is to change the subject.
It's pretty damn clear Musk, donating over $140M + use of the largest media platform in the world to support Trump & to harm Harris, was the major tipping point. It was a clear illegal contribution
THAT'S THE STORY!
Chris Murphy literally admits that he took what Republican senators told him to do and "followed their instructions to the letter"
it is a far right anti immigrant law
What good is an amendment if the government has no interest in the constitution?
The border was an issue because of scapegoating made possible with a lack of an alternative narrative. That is squarely on all Dems
Most young men can’t identify with a few of the party lines, and they feel pushed away.
https://bsky.app/profile/torrleonard.bsky.social/post/3l623c4ayln2c
In your opening segment, you mentioned Ontario Premiere Doug Ford, but you showed a picture of Rob,who was the 'cocaine' mayor of Toronto. Rob's antics made the press worldwide, but he died in 2016. Doug Ford was well-known in the 80's as a hash dealer!
Especially in a country that does not have blood and ancestry in common, but one built on assent to a principle that all people are equal.
Have you ever read Stephen Alexander's "Cornerstone" speech? If so, you recognize many white people still think exactly like that. They think America was made for white people then & remains so today. A country where they are on top, all others must be secondary.
Immigration is the boogie man for: increase housing costs, crime and homelessness.
From the border area that have been here several generations that are not happy with new immigrants that undercut their wages. But that doesn't explain what others are worried about.
You are seeing BC labor revolting at the ballot box.
Society as a whole needs immigration but the current volume of immigrants simply cannot be sustained without further depressing wages.
My favorite part is when we tell BC workers that immigrants do jobs Americans don’t want. Talk about tone deaf
Our industry relies on immigrants. But the current levels are not sustainable
Do you think the people doing the labor benefit of those who hire the laborers benefit?
Now ask yourself why the corporate media has been pounding the table telling you immigrants don’t harm labor/wages
They can't be damaging employment that much.
The recent trend of millions of asylum seekers flooding labor markets is hurting our own workforce in those trades. We need responsible controlled immigration.
As a Democrat, if we say anything about controlling immigration and fixing the (widely) abused asylum process, we get slammed as racists.
U.S. citizens should get to pick who comes into our country. It's not racist to say that.
should Clinton and Gore have disavowed it in order to appeal to the racists?
I'm just a retired RN, so socializing/jobs is a factor here
Look at this everyone. Harris campaign manager O'Malley was crooked it seems
Was it inflation or the border? No. But it was very much a factor.