The PA role. A person may wear scrubs. A person may have a lanyard. A person may have a stethoscope. But none of these make them a doctor. A doctor is made by 10 - 15 years of training, not by a few easily bought accessories. - ThreadSky

drpatrickmackle.bsky.social • 98 days ago

The PA role.

A person may wear scrubs.
A person may have a lanyard.
A person may have a stethoscope.

But none of these make them a doctor.

A doctor is made by 10 - 15 years of training, not by a few easily bought accessories.

Comments

thirdwhaletrip.bsky.social•97 days ago

Those are the facts, Dr ! 👏

brunellalongo.bsky.social•90 days ago

Thanks for following. I have retired from consultancy in IT project management. Many of my past writings about governance of data and public policies design are available in "Knowledge Change" an anthology of over 220 articles on change management and the digital transformation https://amzn.eu/d/h4vMSj4

hopeforward.bsky.social•94 days ago

Amen!

jennifervestal.bsky.social•96 days ago

Here in the US- I got misdiagnosed (for a major condition - IBS) by a PA over a telehealth appointment recently. Thankfully I had the gumption to say “Umm? I don’t think so?” as things unfolded. They had also Rx’ed a med that cost $570 a month WITH insurance, but that’s just an American problem.

annedf.bsky.social•96 days ago

I don't want to be seen by a Noctor.

annwilliams.bsky.social•95 days ago

They're ALREADY practising in CANADA 😡

markovchains1729.bsky.social•94 days ago

By PA, do you mean Physician's Assistants?

I was under the impression that they had fairly extensive medical training, even if not as much as an MD, and mostly functioned to handle the "easy" questions/concerns a patient might have to save the MD's time?

maeverix.bsky.social•87 days ago

Also, easy questions often turn out to be the difficult ones and you need the skills to recognise the difference between a DVT and a muscle strain (PA saw a patient twice and diagnosed muscle and patient subsequently died because of DVT)

maeverix.bsky.social•87 days ago

My understanding is they do a 2 year course and then have a multiple choice exam

typentre.bsky.social•96 days ago

The one thing that keeps coming back to me on this is how is the business that recruits a PA doing a risk assessment on their role and, given the role seems so hard to pin down, how are business insurers regarding this re-negligence risk etc

drsinicropi.bsky.social•96 days ago

True!

chrisarmstrong2.bsky.social•96 days ago

And PAs should have to declare their qualifications at the initial patient contact to avoid any doubt- as should all HCPs actually.

lapdevon.bsky.social•96 days ago

If I am unwell, I want to be seen by someone with more experience and greater skills than I have, not less.

abroadbrush.bsky.social•94 days ago

This whole daft and dangerous scenario reminds me of the Spooky Men's Chorale Song: We'll Give It A Go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kFQtggfz34&list=RDEMi7k9ZYuRE20duMD3dzHstw&index=5

kpc9.bsky.social•96 days ago

I agree there has been some mistakes made in the UK recently publicised

yersin.bsky.social•87 days ago

Related:
https://xkcd.com/699/

retiringfemale.bsky.social•96 days ago

I trained & staffed at UCH, Middlesex & Whittington Hospitals & there were legions of house officers & SHOs. We supported many doctors through training. If all those junior doctors were still employed nobody would have considered PAs.

stevell26.bsky.social•91 days ago

I know who I want to be diagnosed by,if ever I'm ill

pterodactylsunset.bsky.social•87 days ago

Coupled with privatisation including sub contracting and apparent lack of regulation, it seems like a recipe for disaster. This approach is also appearing in the legal sector. I keep hearing horror stories involving both...

andrewmorgan666.bsky.social•94 days ago

Will they be easily identifiable as a PA?

djjonesq.bsky.social•96 days ago

Are the complex, often autonomous and full Masters level trained expert roles that many experienced nurses and midwives carry out excluded from your views on the PA role? Asking for a friend…

mkquilt.bsky.social•94 days ago

So there is a difference. The Masters level expert nurses (and midwives) practice advanced levels of *nursing* — not some junior-level attenuated medicine. They do different things than doctors. And they do it really well, with great patient outcomes.

carole74.bsky.social•95 days ago

Found you.

happyveganmouse.bsky.social•96 days ago

My very ill daughter was in a&e - doc told her “you’re not ill enough to be here, go home and deal with it!”
Gallbladder removed last month, pancreatitis, gastritis, stomach ulcer, continuous vomiting and temps reaching 39c !

bossybritches22.bsky.social•87 days ago

Bless her, that's horrendous, I hope she's slowly getting better? 🙏🏼🥰

happyveganmouse.bsky.social•87 days ago

Thankyou Gill. She had a few days stay as an inpatient eventually. She’s still poorly and they don’t know what it is 🤷‍♀️ all tests, mri and x rays came back fine.

bossybritches22.bsky.social•86 days ago

Poor love, hope they get to the bottom of it eventually. 🙏🏼🤞🏼

happyveganmouse.bsky.social•85 days ago

Thanks Gill the doctor said sometimes they just don’t know!

bossybritches22.bsky.social•84 days ago

No indeed, and because they DO know the answers the majority of the time, it's even more frustrating for us patients when they don't. 😓

orthocsi2025.bsky.social•97 days ago

👍

maeverix.bsky.social•87 days ago

I told my husband to take same ibuprofen for his hurty knee - why can’t I run an orthopaedic clinic?

julescremin.bsky.social•95 days ago

👏 👍🏼 just terrifying this whole PA rubbish. That patients don’t even know they’re not seeing a qualified medical doctor is an absolute sin.

fubar-take2.bsky.social•96 days ago

Most of them i seem to encounter these days then.. .

dazdread.bsky.social•96 days ago

My daughter fitted that description when she was 5 and playing with her doctors set.

It was a PA that missed my Pulminary Embalism, I was referred withn 5 minutes when I eventually had an appointment with a GP... four days later.

rhuaraidh.bsky.social•97 days ago

Are you sure about that? British Airways are about to implement Pilots Associates as Captains on all their long haul routes as a cost saving measure, no longer requiring thousands of flying hours to qualify. Now just 42 hours in a Cessna 172.

rhuaraidh.bsky.social•97 days ago

Don't worry, fifty Captains will be supervised by one Physicians Associate in the ready room at LHR.

Yes, you read that right. Call me a liar BA...

drpatrickmackle.bsky.social•98 days ago

Patients, ordinary PAs, grass roots doctors and public have all been misled.

The PA role is under trained for the tasks it is deployed to meet.

blackcat9lincs.bsky.social•97 days ago

Absolutely... but I think its main purpose was to make Mr Sunak's recruitment figures look impressive and facilitate the "we have more Drs in the NHS than ever before"
propaganda boast.

And reduce the NHS bill by substituting qualified for non-qualified Dr's.

It is a total disgrace.

steventodd.bsky.social•95 days ago

…except PAs cost considerably more than recently qualified and better trained doctors….

blackcat9lincs.bsky.social•95 days ago

I didn't realise that.

steventodd.bsky.social•95 days ago

I don’t have the figures (I don’t work in the health service) but I think that their starting salary after a 2 year course is greater than junior doctors - maybe Band 7 - @patrickmackie.bsky.social or @parthaskar.bsky.social could confirm

patrickmackie.bsky.social•95 days ago

Sorry Steven, I work in local government not the NHS, so have no relevant information for you.

drpatrickmackle.bsky.social•94 days ago

Yes, that is true.

peashen.bsky.social•95 days ago

Only in the first instance though over time they are cheaper as their wage does not increase as they gain experience.

steventodd.bsky.social•95 days ago

That’s the theory - unfortunately they want to expand their scope, and will inevitably want more money as a result 🤣🤦‍♂️

rlmtipton.bsky.social•96 days ago

Wait until you have late life diagnosed hEDS w/ a load of typically weird comorbidities. Trying to get support: 🤣/😭. 🎭All the world's a stage.

PAs, NPs, most MDs... useless. It's not rare, just rarely diagnosed (at least where I am). The entire system is screwed, & with it, aging, trapped patients.

peacefulbee.bsky.social•95 days ago

100% my Doctor's Practice now has just one part-time fully qualified GP left & he's nearing retirement. The majority of appointments are dealt with by medical practitioners.

kaywitsend.bsky.social•96 days ago

I'd never heard of physician associates! Why aren't patients being told?

prplebarney.bsky.social•96 days ago

It’s just another tool to drive people into private healthcare - if you don’t have confidence that the NHS person treating you is qualified you may reconsider using the NHS at all.

dillymint.bsky.social•97 days ago

Agree.

I, however, had a Fisher Price medical kit when I was 5, and my aunt used to let me wear one of her paper nurses hats.
I also watched a lot of Casualty in the 90s.

Pretty sure that makes me a Consultant Neurologist.

musicbunny.bsky.social•95 days ago

Spot on! It’s true of other professions too. Assumptions are made about qualifications and role. Always ask.

spchappy.bsky.social•96 days ago

Got to feel sorry for them though.. what will they do?
I’m an ANP in gp.. we have a great one with us but I can not get my head around the role ever being developed without a governing body..🤔

yumchamama.bsky.social•94 days ago

Retrain them as nurses.

drpatrickmackle.bsky.social•96 days ago

Agree. The individuals within the role deserve support. Every day PAs are not in anyway the architects of this mess.

laineyeh54.bsky.social•97 days ago

Nope. I've watched almost all episodes of 24 hrs in A&E and that doesn't make me a Dr either. Enough of this madness. I Dont want to be seen by someone with 2 years training.

humanity101.bsky.social•97 days ago

Quite right….. “The Basics” 👉🏼

https://www.sgul.ac.uk/study/documents/MBBS-curriculum-brochure.pdf

talmyr.bsky.social•94 days ago

Given how often I got mistaken for being a doctor with only the lanyard...

againstcentrism.bsky.social•96 days ago

Hi

I thought this may be of interest.

Margaret McCartney

Why the fuss about physician associates?

https://www.bmj.com/content/385/bmj.q862

silvmcc.bsky.social•96 days ago

I was a PCN Clinical Director & recruited ARRS roles. PA’s are a valuable asset in the right setting. The problem is Primary Care, with individual responsibility and lone decision making just isn’t the right place. Clerking patients in hospital/pre-op assessment as part of a team would be perfect.

annwilliams.bsky.social•95 days ago

GOT YOU A FB
🇫🇷is having a hell of a time with people from middle east & Africa working with COUNTERFEIT CREDENTIALS (paper & stamps are perfectly copied), stetho around their necks, "DOCTOR" on the back of their blouse ?
Counterfeit diplomas made in
🇷🇴1300€
🇨🇳3700€
U & country, specially of choice

annwilliams.bsky.social•95 days ago

Didn't write it in my bio,
3 PhD specialist reanimation🇫🇷
& 1 masters, mention pedagogical engineering

asleepinyorkshire.bsky.social•96 days ago

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