Ben thinking about this off and on over the year since I posted it. Another topic that has come up in game dev discourse: The idea that games can have more in common with theater than with movies. I think "games as theater" and "jank = good, or at least co-occurs with good" are closely related - ThreadSky

maxnichols.bsky.social • 16 days ago

Ben thinking about this off and on over the year since I posted it.

Another topic that has come up in game dev discourse: The idea that games can have more in common with theater than with movies.

I think "games as theater" and "jank = good, or at least co-occurs with good" are closely related

Reposted from Max Nichols

I am intrigued by the way that younger players from outside the core "AAA" gaming bubble seem to respond super well to games that are... social, lofi, watchable, and 'janky'.

Lethal Company, Palworld, everything in Roblox, FNAF, even Minecraft

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tonydejavu.bsky.social•15 days ago

I like this! I found games like 1000xRESIST very immersive despite its visuals not being AAA quality. It was also actually created by theater people and the intent and stagecraft for their story scenes really show.

ponyus.bsky.social•16 days ago

I think I've been a lover of jank for so long that I sort of forget that not everyone accepts it. I watch old black and white films, but some people just can't accept watching a film without color. Thank you for putting it so well.

ponyus.bsky.social•16 days ago

Also it depends on what kind of jank, because if it's game breaking, like a theater that can't keep the actors visible and audible, then it's a problem which might stop it from being a hit. But if it's low budget, that's fine as long as it didn't pitch itself on high budget graphics.

coil.bsky.social•16 days ago

This is a great point. The jank has to be in service of the overall production, not fighting it. So, counterintuitively, there may not be player appetite for unreliable inputs or game-breaking lag.

Eg part of what works so well for Jackbox & Among Us is how smooth it is to join a lobby.

elisenaps.bsky.social•15 days ago

I feel there's some synergy between the idea of games as theater and games as toys.

Like, you grab a controller and do satisfying stuff that isn't strictly dictated by the game, but if the game provides a framework for that to be meaningful in some broader way, it kind of bridges play and theatre.

katieandcatburger.bsky.social•15 days ago

"games as theater" could be a sub genre even! Pathologic and 1000xResist are two examples that leap to mind, I'm sure there are more but I am eepy

jjhaell.bsky.social•16 days ago

Eurojank has always seemed like a term of endearment.
A game trying to do a lot and/or something weird, often getting way over its head in scope, but goddamn if they weren’t earnestly trying.

This often led to far more interesting games.
A good example of jank not stopping a good game experience.

blahpers.bsky.social•16 days ago

This really illuminates the question I had about that post, which was "what kind of janky is acceptable and what isn't"

Like I'll look past or even embrace jank mechanics, jank graphics, even jank sound but if the game has writing and it comes off as low-effort I am *out*

Same goes for theatre

davidkocik.bsky.social•16 days ago

Conceptualizing games as interactive theater has been really helpful for how I think about games, player mindset, etc.

kaaboose.bsky.social•16 days ago

The crave creativity and something different.
Whenever you get into a medium that you enjoy, if it’s popular and profitable there will be MANY “safe” ways to create in it for profit.
Seeing the same thing over and over gets boring and finding something that doesn’t do that feels amazing.

gamingmechanoid.bsky.social•14 days ago

I agree with all points but isn't it also important to acknowledge that a lot of AAA games sacrifice game feel for immersion? Like, RDR2 is not a "fun" game to play the first time you touch it. It's slow and it breaks several TPS conventions. It doesn't feel good, but its strengths lie elsewhere.

gamingmechanoid.bsky.social•14 days ago

To me, all the games listed in the original post have 1 thing in common: they allow for a lot of mechanical expression. They have lots of features that create variety and dynamics.

Most of the time in higher budget titles I do the exact same thing, following the exact same loop.

totter87.bsky.social•15 days ago

I’ve even thought about this from the environment art and level design perspective of set design. It helps that I’m working in a game that hinges on a vaudeville view of the action

maxnichols.bsky.social•16 days ago

A typical big-budget approach to "immersion" is to try to minimize immersion-breaking frictions: seams, polygons, things that remind players they're in a game.

This is kinda analogous to cinema, especially big-budget cinema. Get details right, even upon zooming in

maxnichols.bsky.social•16 days ago

But, obviously, people get immersed in lofi games too. And when we go to plays in a theater, it's not like the idea that we're just seeing lightweight props and customs on actors is hidden or considered bad to let the audience see

maxnichols.bsky.social•16 days ago

And I don't think this is as simple as "some players are bad at suspending their disbelief, and others are good"

I think that there is a different mindset that audiences bring to these different experiences.

maxnichols.bsky.social•16 days ago

So that begs the question: how do we know and control that mindset?

I don't really have answers, but I think there is an invisible line between high-fi and low-fi styles of immersion. If your game is highly polished and signals that high polish is an intent, then bugs and low polish DOES interfere

maxnichols.bsky.social•16 days ago

And if your game openly presents itself as a "suspend your disbelief and accept the low-fidelity and jank", like a theater, then players are more likely to come in with that mindset in the first place.

I think a lot of our surprising runaway successes from the last few years have done this

wanderways.bsky.social•15 days ago

I also think there’s a distinction to be made, something like “immersed in a setting/reality” and “immersed in the emotion/moment”

Big budget games try to make every last little thing in the world seem real so that the emotional stakes must be real as well […]

maxnichols.bsky.social•16 days ago

And of course, if your game+audience lets you do jankier stuff and get away with it...

that opens up all sorts of doors for dev teams in terms of budget, system interactions, triage bars, that lets them make different kinds of games, and in different ways, than if they're trying to avoid blemishes.

islandmexicano.bsky.social•15 days ago

Think the jank part about it gives it a human feel to the game. More handcrafted guess it would be the better word. Just a nice charm to the whole experience plus sometimes that jank would inspire the player to do things they aren't supposed to like getting to an area in a none traditional way

comassion.bsky.social•16 days ago

Low fidelity was all we had growing up and we fell in love.

comassion.bsky.social•16 days ago

I remember being in a Toys R Us and trying to play this for the first time, taking on the very first Goomba and repeatedly failing like it was an Elden Ring boss.

meissnerd.bsky.social•15 days ago

Kentucky Route Zero is a game whose visuals have stuck with me because of its frequent use of composition that comes from theatre. It even toys with the idea of having plays within the game, as well as "permanent" (as long as you own the game) art installations!

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