Absolute meltdown today in the White House. Lots can be said about how Zelensky handled it, but the real story is how badly Trump managed. This has got to be on the top three of U.S. diplomatic disasters of all time.
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We shouldnt give trump a pass of being a force of nature. Zelenskyy accidentally revealed something important.
When push came to shove, trump showed he will never stand up to russia in their expansion. Annexation, kidnap, and beheading, all allowed if you threaten ww3 apparently.
It seemed like Vance tanked the meeting on purpose. Trump was about as cordial as he can be, until Vance stepped and forced a harsh exchange. Vance is too clever to not know how Trump would react.
I believe he never intended to sign any deal. He was just looking for an excuse to let down the Ukrainians. This was setup. He wants to blame Zelensky for the failure. The plan has always been to please Putin.
Anders, Trump handled it exactly the way he wanted to. This was by design and although long term it'll be a disaster for USA, short term, as in the length of Trump's term, it's precisely what he wants. You're analysing this like US will act in its national interest. That's not happening anymore.
You have a far greater handle on the situation than I do but surely you wouldn't set out to humiliate and demean someone you are about to go into a negotiation with.....unless the point is to provoke a reaction to create a context for future action.
Trump and J D Vance are Clowns doing Putins work. What do they think this is? Reality TV?? Zelenskyj was feed up with the bullies. Disaster yes, but now Trump and Vance showed there colors 🇷🇺 … Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
I have really mixed opinions about this.. some say Zelensky needlessly escalated by challenging Vance on the issue of putin violaitng ceasefires, but the reaction was so overblown its hard to believe there is any good faith left in the Americans. I am simply at a loss...
The Trump administration is already televising the events like a triumph protecting American interests, it really feels like they made up their mind that they don't want to be involved anymore.
I am saying that MAYBE Zelensky somewhat blundered by pressing the issue, but there is no doubt its impossible to have serious negotiations when Trump is going on a rants about hunter biden when asked a simple question
Zelensky directly challanged Vance on the question of putin breaking ceasefires, when maybe he just shouldn't have and simply waited for the deal to be signed.
But I have no doubt in my mind that Vance's reaction was completely out of line, accusing Zelensky of disrespecting etc
Zelensky knows he is a man being led to the slaughterhouse by trump and Putin, while trump pretends to be a "peacemaker", he cannot just sit there while they spout literal BS. He's doing an incredible job when he does not really have much leverage.
At one hand is was predictable and on the other hand I really hoped that somehow an opportunity for wisdom came into the room and landed on Trump/Vance. They US keep disappointing these days. Better we face tough reality and make plans without them. I hope Europe can push and support Ukraine more.
This is the first time I've felt sick to my stomach watching a state visit like this. Europe is in big trouble, and that meeting just cleared the air and made it unambiguous: Us Europeans are alone in this confrontation, and Russia has had a big head start in weakening our position.
Not a proud day for a Republican supporter like you prof.
Will they cheer when President Putin pins the medal of Lenin on Comrade Trump's chest.
The mafia has taken over the Whitehouse .
God bless America ? Nope God help America
America your President is naked and people are scared to say anything
Trump just threw the greatest hero of our time out of his office, and doesn't understand why people don't like him?
81% of American voters support Ukraine. I wonder how long Trump can walk on water?
He just told the world Putin is more interesting than doing the right thing.
Lots IS being said about Zelenskys handling today. I think the comments along the lines “he should have been more like Macron”, “he shouldnt say “I dont play cards”” etc etc are naive. The three stooges had wanted this to happen, and the bullying started right from he got out of the car.
I think it went exactly as planned. The reactions of the Europeans is also exactly expected. Will Trump now say that both Zelensky and the Europeans do not want peace and then just walk away? Likely ...
Not only was it a diplomatic disaster, they also came back from Riyadh empty-handed, and now it looks like Trump got nothing again. A good dealmaker always comes out with something more or less if he goes into negotiations with realistic demands.
I am 54 and I have never seen such a humiliating conference before. This is spectacular betrayal live on television, historic actually. I think that Zelensky is right, the consequences will also reach the U.S.
The consequences are currently all over the globe—Venezuela, Hamas, Houthis, Sahel, etc. Russia is undermining the world order, and this will only provoke Xi to invade Taiwan.
I'm starting to think the real problem might be JD Vance. He was the spark plug today - and the things he said at the security summit were a direct attack on Europe and democracy.
Today’s embarrassing display is the end of USA’s role as leader of the free world. It’s on par with the fall of the Berlin Wall. Trump has destroyed USA as a serious partner and made his country irrelevant to any negotiations in the future. I don’t see any way to come back from this.
Well, the Russian propaganda (including Bloomberg with its Russian CEO) was all laser-focused writing about "Stupid Donny tricked into a bad deal by master-fucker Zelya".
Did Zelenskyy handled it wrong? At the end I can not see mistakes. He was clear, sticked to the truth. it was a staged trap, fine. But it makes no sense to give a in a millimeter into lies and made-up-stories. A lose-lose-situation: betrayal of Ukraine and betrayal of American interests. So far, …
…so bad. As you analyzed correctly, it was never the question if trumps “plan” would work-it would never have worked- the question is, what will happen/what will the US do after it becomes clear that it’ll never work?! Now we have that answer: blame Zelenskyy and align completely with Russia.-EU …
… now has to stop whining and act: 1. Thank Zelenskyy to finally say goodbye to self-deception of alleged us-eu-alignment of interests 2. Create a 1000 billion defense-fund analog to COVID-fund and start to order European kit 3. Shove out Fico & Orban and find a work-around to these two. 4…
…Stick to NATO as long as it helps but set up a parallel European defense coordination platform/ 5. Deliver everything Ukraine needs immediately, don’t hold anything back. 6. Probably even a nuclear -arms test by France would help to get the message across, that you better don’t mess with Europe 🇪🇺
It was shocking, disgraceful. Trump and Vance acted like a pair of mafiosos doing s shakedown. I didn't see anything that resembled the leadership of the Free World.
I think Trump handled it exactly as he planned it. He intended to attack and insult Zelenskyy and did so. Not caring a bit that he came across like a juvenile bully.
Will European leaders finally get it that Trump has de facto left NATO and they need to substantially increase their defense budgets asap. They need to buy European only to develop our industry. You cannot trust Trump will not side with Putin against Europe. Double-up Support for Ukraine.
U.S. is no longer part of NATO.
U.S. set the scene to humiliate Zelenskyy as a publicity stunt.
U.S. voted with Russia in the UN.
U.S. is no longer an ally of Europe nor of Ukraine.
U.S. has become a fascist state.
Unless the people of U.S. revolts..
80 years of American primacy gone in an instant. Poof! Beyond crushing as an American who actually quite likes the liberal world order and isn’t sure why anyone would want to throw it away to be friends with a dictatorship with a GDP less than New York City’s.
and even if they had a video of him getting peed on by child prostitutes in a holy water font and being handed a tray of cocain and baby seal-derived adrenochrome by a ladyboy... it wouldn't matter: he's untouchable now because maga is a cult and a sect. maga would celebrate this video
No, it’s even stupider. The videos wouldn’t even matter if they’re real, people like Trump too much. Trump is just an idiot like all the rest who falls for the “Russia strong” propaganda.
I am sure it was staged to be that way. I fear the details were planned in the talks between Russia and the US in SA recently. Europe will be split up, if they succeed. DT will rather have a obeying half of Europe than chaos he does not understand. He seems to behave like an allied of Russia.
This wasn´t badly managed, this was a setup. Premediated bullying tactics. The only thing diplomatic in the oval office was president Zelenskyy and they ambushed him mercilessly. Absolutely disgusting.
Trump has been talking for days about how the minerals deal was fantastic and would get all the money back. Now it looks like he fumbled the deal. So I don't think it was the plan not to sign it.
Choreographed attack to put blame on Zelensky because he wouldn’t sign the deals. I expect Trump will start pulling as much Ukraine aid as he can in the next few day/weeks.
The attack on Zelensky felt to much of a theater piece to not be planned. It was not just Trump being Trump, but a lot of different attacks on Zelensky from different people.
Maybe I am just reading to much into it and these people are just idiots.
Besides that I would think that it's a(nother) big sign for Europe to ramp up it's own arms production, in return hurting US manufacturers in not buying from them / much less in the future?
If more such show trial meetings are agreed between Ukraine and the United States of America, Zelensky won't have to waste time on it himself - Klitschko can easily take care of such a bunch of whining wankers.
It looks like a spontaenous disaster, but the way they televise it as a triumph "standing for American interests" makes me think they made up their mind they don't want to be involved anymore, unless Zelensky really humiliates himself
Putin could have offered a much bigger stake, one that benefits Trump personally. He couldn't care less for his country. See how he is wrecking the economy without a second thought.
Trump has built up the deal as something big and fantastic. Now he can stand back and say, “See for yourself. We made this great deal, and Ukraine and Europe didn’t want it. They don’t want peace. Now they’re on their own.”
It's possible but I think he would have framed the deal differently as more beneficial for Ukraine. Now it looks like Trump just lost 500 billion dollars.
It wasn't about the money, because all those things that Trump claimed weren't actually in the text. So it was his own choice to talk it up as a big victory.
For en gangs skyld er jeg uenig med dig, Anders. Det så meget orkesteret ud - lige fra det første spørgsmål, “hvorfor har du ikke jakkesæt på - det synes mange mennesker er disrespektfuldt”
Nja, jeg synes jo Zelinskys “disrespektfulde” facon var meget svær at få øje på. I mine øjne blev den talt op af administrationen, som jo også var meget hurtig til at smide ham ud. Det virkede ikke til de ligefrem var desperate efter at få den aftale i hus
Det var jo ikke en rigtig aftale! De nåede ikke engang ind til forhandlingsbordet. Trump fik arrangeret et realityshow, hvor han på live TV fik muligheden for at trække den amerikanske støtte til krigen og samtidig frame Zelinsky som disrespektfuld og usamarbejdsvillig ➡️ Trumps ven Putin vinder.
Kan anbefale at læse/lytte denne artikel fra Zetland. https://www.zetland.dk/historie/shzuOdC8-mowGPGp4-04a1d
Den forklarer ikke alt, men den forklarer nok Vance's tilgang. Trump har også Musk der hvisker i det andet øre - og det er nok i højere grad ham og tech, som har brug brug for mineralerne fra Ukraine og Grønland.
@anderspucknielsen.dk Aftalen kunne reelt være lokkemad for at lokke Zelenskyy i baghold - for at få en undskyldning til at trække sig helt ud af Ukraine. Det er som jeg forstår det en af grundtankerne i Project 2025 og Vance's ideologi. Og klovnen Trump er villig til at gamle med verdensfreden.
@anderspucknielsen.dk Det kan godt være at Trump på forhånd "blot" ville ydmyge Zelensky lidt og så få sin deal/underskrive, men Vance havde tydeligvis en anden plan om at skabe splid mellem Trump og Zelenskyy, så aftalen kunne falde på gulvet. Der kan godt være en intern/grim kamp i det hvide hus.
The problem is that Trump is the first republican leader to actually believe in their own propaganda, including the notion that Ukraine is supposedly a US puppet. Reality check is hard on them.
Yeah, I wondered if the intention was to challenge Trump and co. on air and not sign it, but that's a terrible and unpredictable plan. The Ukrainian ambassador wouldn't have her head in her hands if this were planned.
They let Russian state media into the Oval Office. They let JD Vance and MTG's boyfriend lead attacks on Zelensky. It was an ambush designed to shift blame to Zelensky for Trump not being able to reach a peace deal.
I expected that it fail due to something like different terms in deal to sign, than it has been pre-negotiated, so no surprise for me. Trump administrative just didn't bother. Anyway it failed as expected.
Hard to say if Trump acted intentionally or not.
Any which way, Europe incl Ukraine must become a fully self-contained military/nuclear power while still trying to keep the US allied.
When we think about who he supports and always has supported and likely will continue to support even more, he believes he'll still get it. I don't believe someone like him ever wanted a deal. It was and is extortion and he knows it.
Truth is,Trump couldn't negotiate with putin. He would look weak because putin won't budge. So he opted to make a big, strong man show so he (foolishly) looks strong for his voters. So, negotiations over, war goes on, but Ukraine has allies who are even more united because of this pre-planned farce.
I'm sorry Zelensky did what he had to do. He seeks for help, his country is invaded by Russian nazis. I think President Macron and other leaders in Europe have warned him not to go, but Zelensky thinks about the sake of his own country before anything. Can you imagine the pressure on this man ?
Comments
When push came to shove, trump showed he will never stand up to russia in their expansion. Annexation, kidnap, and beheading, all allowed if you threaten ww3 apparently.
- insipid flattery
- outrageous insults
- extreme coercion
He goes to such extremes with the negatives that most normal people give in just to get away from it.
But I have no doubt in my mind that Vance's reaction was completely out of line, accusing Zelensky of disrespecting etc
Will they cheer when President Putin pins the medal of Lenin on Comrade Trump's chest.
The mafia has taken over the Whitehouse .
God bless America ? Nope God help America
America your President is naked and people are scared to say anything
Trump just threw the greatest hero of our time out of his office, and doesn't understand why people don't like him?
81% of American voters support Ukraine. I wonder how long Trump can walk on water?
He just told the world Putin is more interesting than doing the right thing.
I have no respect for him, at all.
they wanted to make a boob out of Zelenskyy and he didn't let them
enough with this appeasy doormat attitude, it doesn't work with bullies
have you still not learned?
https://youtu.be/2xulQUlyaVc?feature=shared
Det var så uværdigt, at man slet ikke kan forstå det. 😬
There’s always one coming next week
war?
I support President Zelenskyy and Ukraine.
#POTUS #Trump 's US no longer stands for democracy and freedom!
#StandWithUkraine #Ukraine
U.S. set the scene to humiliate Zelenskyy as a publicity stunt.
U.S. voted with Russia in the UN.
U.S. is no longer an ally of Europe nor of Ukraine.
U.S. has become a fascist state.
Unless the people of U.S. revolts..
The attack on Zelensky felt to much of a theater piece to not be planned. It was not just Trump being Trump, but a lot of different attacks on Zelensky from different people.
Maybe I am just reading to much into it and these people are just idiots.
They now have an excuse to stop supporting Ukraine and start doing business with Russia. That is financially more promising for Trump's cronies.
Trump basically set Zelensky up to fail, so that he can execute his next moves more freely.
Considering the remarks afterwards I suppose they got their expected outcome.
It is about the narrative, not the money.
Even though everything is transactional with Trump, it's about power not wealth. And more about domestic consolidation/isolation.
Den forklarer ikke alt, men den forklarer nok Vance's tilgang. Trump har også Musk der hvisker i det andet øre - og det er nok i højere grad ham og tech, som har brug brug for mineralerne fra Ukraine og Grønland.
You all keep acting like a woman separated from an abusive relationship, still unsure if there is some love left.
I believe they realized what they were warned about was actually true - for 🇷🇺 it is not about a piece of land, it is about sphere of influence.
After analyzing the outcome, they realized that any possible deal with 🇷🇺 would be a 🇺🇲 defeat.
Any which way, Europe incl Ukraine must become a fully self-contained military/nuclear power while still trying to keep the US allied.
Instead, Zelensky insisted on security guarantees as part of an agreement, which Trump is not ready to give.
Thus the obvious irritation from the US side and subsequent argument.
Is like sitting tied to a chair while a six year old is playing with a loaded gun!