what's really funny to me is that Robert Nozick DID THIS almost fifty years ago now, and did it better. I'm no Nozick fan but at least he had a clearer set of reasoned principles than this about the origins of a minimal social contractarian state.
Libertarianism makes a lot more sense when you realize that it's a religion, with The Market as its god. Their inability to recognize their god as a real bastard stems from the fact that they believe themselves to be its chosen people.
These are people who think The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress is some sort of manual for future civilizations. It's a *fantasy*, Heinlein can make it turn out the way he wants because it is *not real* (and frequently laughably naive). This somehow doesn't get through to them.
Also TMIAHM literally ends with the newly victorious Loonies turning into a normal government now that they’re out from underneath the boot. Committees, constitution, laws and all. The libertarian mouthpiece spends a whole scene bemoaning it! (Before he dies)
Lmao… omg.
How about, Marie’s is assaulted and dismembered by ADT employee who’s actually a predator positioned to hunt till he’s full? Oh umm has that ever happened?
Sorry, I know this is far afield of the original point. But, can’t resist.
FWIW, if you're on that bird site it's worth looking through the comments on that dumb post. Armies of sane people drop in to tell him he's an idiot in a dozen different dimensions, but he doesn't back down: he posted this image 100% unironically.
My brother explained a libertarian utopia once and showed how almost every company that replaced government would be a form of insurance. I said "you like dealing with insurance companies that much?"
It is compelling to frame the federal government as a well-armed insurance company! Of course, doing so puts the lie to the whole argument. You're not living without government; at best you're reinventing polycentric law
Also I just realized... In this example, if Walter wasn't a member of Ring, would ADT just... Black bag him? Take him to a remote site and beat him until cash fell out?
Presumably ADT would summon him to arbitration directly. I wonder if they'd offer some kind of "introductory deal" where he can go on a payment plan if he subscribes. This of course is a scenario where black-bagging is deemed bad for business
Also lawsuits. They love the idea that everyone can simply sue everyone else. E coli in your lettuce? Sue! Roaches in your omelette? Sue! Workplace decapitation? Sue!
The only libertarian author I've ever respected was a friend of a friend who wrote what started out as a "libertarian sci-fi novel" about a guy who kept founding libertarian colonies, but EVERY time he did it, eventually the largest "private security" company just declared itself the goverment.
The idea that anarchism can work without post-scarcity is absurd. The idea that ancaps are opposed to promoting post-scarcity is evidence of why ancaps are dumb AF.
There's still a government here, since that's what Amazing Adjudication is, it's just going to be much weaker than the patronage networks, so you're going to get a lot more violence.
The difference is that people who can't afford to pay for protection get no rights at all, and can have "acts of aggression" inflicted on them with impunity. For the people who advocate for this system, this not a bug, but a feature.
I seem to remember seeing some tech bros coming up with an app to allow people in a community to pool their money and buy large things for common use like bros invented taxes.
Trying to imagine how having dozens of competing private security companies acting individually as three separate arms of the criminal justice system (police/courts/corrections) is supposed to be more desirable than the current one, or a line of business these companies would even want to pursue.
Because if enough people embrace this logic, there's a chance the people who propound it may be able to pay lower taxes. The endgame, consciously or unconsciously, has nothing to do with the fantasy described
Clearly so, I'm just struggling to understand how there's even a constituency for "I wish accessing my basic rights as a citizen worked in exactly the same way as my health insurance."
Economics teaches us* that markets are always the most efficient way to provision a service** so it's impossible*** for all the various bills I'd have to pay to add up to more than my taxes.
Also wouldn't organised criminals just hire a security agency that doesn't care about avoiding war and would slaughter any claim against them? They've just... "Innovated" warlords.
Yes, in the long term you need some kind of organization capable of establishing sovereignty. Goes back to Weber, to Locke, Rosseau & Hobbes; the reasons this can't work are the reasons we have government instead
This sort of viewpoint starts with the assumption that everybody is civil, rational, sane, intelligent, and engaging in enlightened self-interest. Heinlein, bless his soul, came up with the ideas of the Fair Witness and "An armed society is a polite society." Entertaining, but doesn't work in RL.
Walter robs Marie. He finds Marie and shoots her in panic. No report is filed until Marie's brother Bob checks on her two weeks later. ADT responds that it's not their problem because she's no longer a customer, keeps Marie's payments, and walks away laughing.
Alternate ending: ADT accuses Bob of the murder. Bob is also a customer of ADT, so there's no investigation and no arbitration. They sell Marie's house and punish Bob. How do they punish Bob? However they like, there's nobody to stop them.
Marie calls ADT to report a robbery in progress while she's hiding. ADT replies, "let us know when he's gone and record all stolen items so we can investigate." Marie does so. Walter is too clever for the cameras so is not identified. ADT charges Marie for the investigation. Marie has no recourse.
Funny thing is when I saw the words Young Capitalist the first thing I thought of was another fascist republican again saying that they are above everyday Americans petty laws.
Walter robs Marie. Marie contacts her protection company, which tells her that she has not met her property-crime deductible for that calendar year, so she’s out-of-pocket for protection and arbitration services.
Libertarians are either man children who will never grow up or so convinced of their own superiority that a world without rules would be to their benefit. Well both, probably. Wait, I just described Donald Trump.
I mean this is some kind of Weber/Nozick mashup isn’t it? I do wish they’d try to engage with the pre-existing debate instead of just galaxy-braining it.
It reminds me of how crypto bros tout the benefits of an unregulated currency/security, and then run headlong into scams and theft and manipulation and find out, over and over, "Oh, that's why that regulation exists!"
I have definitely seen anarchists invent exactly this from first principles and then lean really hard on the "unjust" half of "unjust hierarchies" to admit it
If you push a libertarian they'll eventually admit they just don't want to pay taxes, but anarchists legit believe the Community Protection Board will be immune to the forces that act on police departments, and here's a 90 page PDF that doesn't explain why.
The anarchist version of the meme is to replace all the corporate dystopia with local committees, never reach a resolution, and then when someone eventually beats the shit out of Walter, everyone shrugs their shoulders and says "Welp, guess that's praxis."
I can only charitably assume they're talking about "anarchocapitalism" a la milei's campaign in argentina, which of course has nothing to do with actual anarchist principles... I think the libertarians were just tired of getting dunked on and decided to soft rebrand.
their ideas don't scale imo, but I'd take anarchists over libertarians any day of the week. at least they know the value of collective action and solidarity.
Comments
Unregulated insurance for all of your life isn’t the Ayn Randian paradise these fools daydream it is.
How about, Marie’s is assaulted and dismembered by ADT employee who’s actually a predator positioned to hunt till he’s full? Oh umm has that ever happened?
Sorry, I know this is far afield of the original point. But, can’t resist.
He stopped talking to me about it after that.
* no it doesn't
** no they aren't
*** no it isn't
I've found it, a leftist argument for state police forces; a tax driven popice force at least theoretically prevents wealthy on poor crime.
Or maybe medieval vassal-liege stuff.
And then a multi-billionaire buys all three private companies and tells them they can appeal to Catturd2.