After a decade of being my favorite format, I think Modern Horizons 3 finally killed Modern for me. I just can't seem to get excited to play an "eternal" format where a huge percent of playable cards are from recent direct to Modern sets.
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If you have played any bandai card game you will recognize the way they made it so the new cards were explicitly made to be strong only with them. It was WoTc giving us a parasitic deck from on high
Modern was my absolute favorite format. I loved it. But what I loved was getting to play with old cards in a format that didn't rotate. All that changed with Modern Horizons,and the format I loved went away.
I like playing what I think of as Modern Horizons, but I miss the old Modern format so much
Same here, I used to have a Modern deck i used to really love as a deck that would never rotate and then all the new Modern Horizons cards power crept and priced me out of the format.
Agreed. Creating new archetypes or printing new staples in a direct-to-format, premium priced set is what started me losing interest in the format and game.
Some of the guys from the Boston #oldschoolmtg scene have been bringing "Modern 2015" decks to our local meet-ups lately -- they call it "Splinter Modern" as it captures the moment in time before the banning of Splinter Twin
Prof's love of Merfolk is what got me into Modern in the first place. The deck was fun, and I had a great time going to local events. Then MH1 came out, and while it introduced new Merfolk, it also gave us Force of Negation. I wasn't interested in buying a $200 playset, so I stopped playing Modern.
This weekend i pulled out a box of "old modern"decks you did on your shows a few years ago and we had an absolute blast revisiting them. Way more fun than the current modern
I feel that the biggest spit on the face was Boros Energy--a literal direct to Modern *deck*. At least the previous Horizons sets were simply individually strong power crept cards.
Yeah after buying into the MH3 and playing in the format for 2 months I also came to this same conclusion. Magic hasn't been as fun as it used to be. And now with half of the set next year being based of non-magic IP. I'll be taking a break from playing magic for awhile.
Magic in general has reached a point where the cost to continue to play competitively has outpaced my interest. Might be time to explore other games or different hobbies.
Same here. The thought that MH2 was indeed not a design mistake and they tripled down on LOTR and MH3 forcing 600 bucks worth of mandatory new cards on each set killed all the enjoyment. Cards that will also get banned a couple months before the next batch drops too, which adds insult to the injury.
Yeah, I was thinking that Wizards would learn from MH2 and MH3 would be different, and while the might have in some ways (like powering down the free spells), overall MH3 feels like more of the same, but maybe even worse.
I’d like to add a perspective to this without diminishing yours:
I’ve tried magic on/off for years & got serious in 2017. Didn’t really look into modern until mid to late 2018 and even then the expensive buy-in slowed my engagement.
I 100% believe you share your perspective in earnest, and at this point of internet history we can also accept that at a certain level of influence, sharing your opinion is almost guaranteed to add momentum to the endless online “doomer” discussions that every hobby has; rightly or wrongly.
Could modern be better? Always.
Is your perspective true to you? Always
Is my perspective true to me? Always
Curious to hear your thoughts on how best one can strike a balance between sharing their opinion as participant of a hobby without fanning the endless fires of complaining on the internet
I think that honest feedback is a good thing whether it's negative or positive. My hope is that by expressing what you like (and what you don't like) Wizards will use that feedback to help improve the game.
Six standard sets a year should be enough cards that they don’t need to print it straight to modern, even if they’re able to find the room in the schedule to do that
Yeah, the problem is the damage is already done. Not getting more direct to Modern sets means we're just locked into MH3 block constructed forever. Outside of mass bannings (which would also be bad in another way) I'm not sure this bell can unring.
It's the logical conclusion to the path they entered with the first Modern Horizons set. The cards MUST be good enough to see play in Modern and each new Horizons set MUST be more impactful than the last in order to achieve that. Eventually you arrive at a deck like Boros Energy.
IMO a semi-rotating format is okay (it should be between standard/pioneer and vintage/legacy power-wise, and direct sets do that), and MH1/MH2 both introduced diverse metas, but MH3/LOTR are badly balanced.
The problem is how do you rebalance without introducing stronger strategies than MH3?
Didn't MH2 soft-rotate modern? Between ragavan/murktide/scam it basically created the meta at the time. That's the problem you can't get out of with direct-to-modern sets: either they're unimpactful or they warp the meta. Unhappy players either way. Wizards chose the progressive powercreep route.
It did, and I think that’s okay to an extent. The issue is when the tier 1 decks are essentially MH3 precons. That didn’t happen in MH2. We got very powerful individual pieces, but they were used in a variety of ways. We didn’t get energy.dec and eldrazi.dec
Personally, I still think it's a problem even when the meta revolves around a handful of cards from the new set. That still means that the only cards that are played are the new cards and the old ones that coincidentally happen to work as support for them. It still kills diversity.
I do think MH2 pushed it to the limit, and they should have backed off instead of doubling down with lotr and mh3. But now that we’re over the line I’m not sure what they do— what will dislodge the mh3 decks except even stronger strategies? Wouldn’t want to be the person tasked with fixing it
I used to be more bothered that I could never afford to play modern, but right now i think im over it. Im gonna focus my effort on finding people to play pioneer with
Same. I decided I wasn't going to go HAM on this format. I am/was/are/will be a mid-range Jund aficionado so I picked up a few things like Nethergoyfs. I've been enjoying Hollow One/Jund Delirium. I'd rather play Pioneer but WotC seemingly has put it on the back burner right after balancing it.
I still love Modern and will keep playing it and making content for it. Modern always has lulls of people not liking it, but out here in the PDX area it is still easily the most attended event format.
That being said it is ironic that my best content are shorts showing bad beats in Modern lol
Yeah it makes me sad to think at the format rn. After mh2, things have moved too quickly. All was not to waste, I remember fondly your much abrew video on selesnya cats After mh1.
@saffronolive.bsky.social, what do you think of "we are upping the power level in standard, and print all sets into standard" that they swapped to this next year? Do you think it'll fix the Straight To Modern issue, or do you think it's just gonna hurt Standard and Pioneer like Horizons did Modern ?
I think they need to give pioneer the few iconic modern cards that wouldn't break it (Goyf, Tribal Flames, Wild Nacatl, Snappy) Leave Bolt/Amulet Titan/Tron in Modern. Then we can just play good modern in pioneer and pretend Bad Modern doesn't exist til they kill Energy/The One Ring
Same. Putting the cards you need behind a premium pay walls is a real kick in the format. WotC is good at designing for standard (example look at how good standard is right now). They should just stick to that and let older formats just naturally grow and be occasionally curated with bans.
I wouldn't say wotc is good at designing for standard. Before current standard there was a looong stint of very unfun ones (which is part of the reason standard died outside of mtg arena).
Yeah, I also don't think they can get much credit for current Standard being good (which I think it is) because they've talked about how they didn't know about the rotation changes until Karlov Manor. It seems like it's good by luck rather than design.
To wit, Sheoldred's life in Standard was extended TWICE (first with the 3-year rotation, then the switch to rotation in January instead of fall). I agree they had absolutely no idea what Standard they were designing for.
This seems to be a pattern with standard. Even rtr-innistrad and ths-ktk felt like lightning in a bottle. It seems that good design practices can make good formats more likely but not guaranteed.
Seeing it from this point of view, it kind of makes sense why wotc gave up on it in the past.
I always wanted to play modern but got priced out. Thankful I never got into it because I could not imagine the frustration Horizon sets have caused to the format.
I think that the format the people want modern to be can never come back. Modern is legacy light and pioneer is the closest thing to what modern was, and the cycle will begin again in like 5 years
I used to play yugioh a long time ago. I stopped playing it because all of the cards I got attached to either got banned or got powercreeped out. Modern feels the same now.
I miss when you could play janky Siege Rhino or Séance decks and still feel like you got to play the game (even if you lost).
I mean in actuality I get it, nostalgia for old modern is strong but I for one have felt that the gameplay of the new modern has been exciting and fun.
Comments
1: Looking at the current Modern banned list, & knowing there is a B&R incoming, what would you build to play at just FNMs for a year?
2: Same as 1, but disregard banned list & you’re just playing w/ friends.
3: Will you make the answers to these as content?
I like playing what I think of as Modern Horizons, but I miss the old Modern format so much
Magic in general has reached a point where the cost to continue to play competitively has outpaced my interest. Might be time to explore other games or different hobbies.
I’ve tried magic on/off for years & got serious in 2017. Didn’t really look into modern until mid to late 2018 and even then the expensive buy-in slowed my engagement.
Modern is now more engaging than ever for me.
I 100% believe you share your perspective in earnest, and at this point of internet history we can also accept that at a certain level of influence, sharing your opinion is almost guaranteed to add momentum to the endless online “doomer” discussions that every hobby has; rightly or wrongly.
Is your perspective true to you? Always
Is my perspective true to me? Always
Curious to hear your thoughts on how best one can strike a balance between sharing their opinion as participant of a hobby without fanning the endless fires of complaining on the internet
On your bigger question, my personal take is just be honest. Sometimes that's saying you like something, sometimes it's saying you don't.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/ModernMuseum
The problem is how do you rebalance without introducing stronger strategies than MH3?
That being said it is ironic that my best content are shorts showing bad beats in Modern lol
It’s sad saying goodbye to an old friend.
Seeing it from this point of view, it kind of makes sense why wotc gave up on it in the past.
I miss when you could play janky Siege Rhino or Séance decks and still feel like you got to play the game (even if you lost).