Earth & Life Sciences Academics communicating the new EO about indirect rates, imma need you to improve yer messaging- maybe don't say "If I get a million dollar grant, my uni gets another $700k to keep the lights on & water running" bc isn't going to get the traction you think it is- - ThreadSky | a Reddit-style client for Bluesky

mammalssuck.bsky.social • 15 days ago

Earth & Life Sciences Academics communicating the new EO about indirect rates, imma need you to improve yer messaging- maybe don't say "If I get a million dollar grant, my uni gets another $700k to keep the lights on & water running" bc isn't going to get the traction you think it is-

Comments

spin4srv.bsky.social•15 days ago

Maybe point out that the top rate was 70% for children's hospital yet they skipped it and listed Harvard at 69% at the top of the list. Hospital keeping lights on while serving kids with cancer is a good starter, then move on to why you need infrastructure for research.

josephsabol.bsky.social•15 days ago

And that the comparison group (with 10-15% overhead) is for pretty much office space only, not laboratories.

benneholwerda.bsky.social•15 days ago

…at the only hospital in the county? That last bit seems important.

edhagen.net•15 days ago

Alternative view: all these EO's, etc, are simply distractions while Trump et al. quietly work to gain full control over military, paramilitary, and other armed institutions, at which point, game over.
https://klapperfeld.de/en/permanent-exhibitions/history-of-the-former-police-prison-and-its-use-during-national-socialism-1886-1945/organisation-and-structure-of-the-gestapo-ss-and-police/https://klapperfeld.de/en/permanent-exhibitions/history-of-the-former-police-prison-and-its-use-during-national-socialism-1886-1945/organisation-and-structure-of-the-gestapo-ss-and-police/

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josephsabol.bsky.social•15 days ago

Look at the comparison orgs cited in the EO. They are not real comparables, they are all orgs with essentially only offices, not sophisticated laboratories with complicated instruments.

navinpokala.bsky.social•15 days ago

This is a good framing except instead "US" the headline should read "Musk" https://bsky.app/profile/bloomberg.com/post/3lhoy5imnkj2y

raindae.bsky.social•15 days ago

Appreciate this thread. I’m an architect who designs labs, mostly for higher ed clients who are unsurprisingly horrified and scrambling. I’m looking for any way to support them by finding ways to reduce indirects that don’t cause downstream job cancellations etc.

evoexplorer.bsky.social•15 days ago

This is SO IMPORTANT to be aware of when talking to non scientists who are not familiar with the system -- esp folks who may look toward big universities as hotbeds of "elitism"

staceyberg.bsky.social•15 days ago

Don’t focus on indirects. Just explain that funding that was already agreed to is suddenly being cut by about a third.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

why is that compelling to a member of the general public?

staceyberg.bsky.social•15 days ago

Medical research funded by NIH saves lives, leads to biomedical innovation and benefits your local economy.

Some great talking points here:

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

Yes, I make many of these points down-thread, along with additional ones. But the starting point is how so many Scis are scoring on our own goal with crappy talking points.

annealiz1.bsky.social•15 days ago

Being cut by 75%!

juliekovacs.bsky.social•15 days ago

We will have a massive shortage of doctors and nurses, because med schools, who rely on NIH funding, will shut down. Death rates will climb in the US. Hospitals will close. Doctors offices in rural areas especially will close. The economy will collapse. This is worse than Covid.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

Bc folks turning that $$$ into buying power in their own lives turns the talking point into "If I get three houses, my institution gets two houses and we couldn't possibly have fewer houses"

And folks KNOW their costs of keeping the lights & water on, so it instantly sounds hinky AF.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

Don't you have working class & poverty class folks in your family?? Maybe focus group some of yer talking points for half a second instead of showing up to a knife fight with a pippetter.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

AND THIS MESSAGING FUCKING MATTERS.
Because Project 2025 is coming to break the spine of research as a PUBLIC GOOD.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

From cancers to asthma to diabetes to heart disease to Alzheimer's to tooth decay, NIH-funded research has advanced, improved, & accelerated treatment.

While industry was getting folks INTENTIONALLY HOOKED ON OPIOIDS, health scientists were working through nights & weekends to make people safer.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

Children's hospitals, rural health clinics, transformative research, rare genetic diseases, clinical trials- NIH-funding has been CRUCIAL to ALL OF THESE.

dianamonkey.bsky.social•15 days ago

In case it's helpful when making your case!

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

They are dismantling what protects Americans:

Monitoring weather patterns so folks can escape hurricanes, floods, & wildfires (NOAA)

Improving medicine & health guidance (NIH, CDC)

The safety of the food we eat (USDA)

Our National Defense system (Pentagon, USAID)

THE FUCKING US TREASURY.

wandsci.bsky.social•15 days ago

Please rethink the line about industry intentionally getting patients hooked on opiods. The vast majority of the biopharma industry did no such thing, and industry scientists have been rallying to support NIH. See Derek Lowe's blog posts, for instance.

Don't let them divide us.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

respectfully-

kconnor.bsky.social•15 days ago

Ha! Love this analogy!!

buckykatt.bsky.social•15 days ago

Liked for use of the word "hinky"

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

It makes me sad that word has fallen out of routine use.

marcusmuench.bsky.social•15 days ago

I think what doesn’t get mentioned enough is that the indirects also pay for the needed administration of research. NIH makes us follow rules (for very good reasons) and to follow these rules we people to implement and enforce the regulations.

jacquelyngill.bsky.social•15 days ago

Everyone should also know it’s not just that this money is a public good because research is important, but that universities have an ROI that corporations can only dream of.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

:-D downthread :-D

jacquelyngill.bsky.social•15 days ago

I did read the whole thing, but I didn’t see “return on investment” mentioned explicitly, in terms of the actual dollar value that goes back into the economy for every dollar spent. The number is something like $2.30 to $3.00 in economic activity for every $1.00 spent (sources: NBER, AAUP).

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

it's toward the end, with a link (for as long as the link lasts), I didn't use ROI/Return on Investment explicitly since it speaks more to the already wonky :-D
https://bsky.app/profile/mammalssuck.bsky.social/post/3lhopugrfgs26

jacquelyngill.bsky.social•15 days ago

Thanks! I think Bluesky is parsing the thread weirdly for me, I didn’t see that!

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

Blusky seems to be making us choose to continue with the "main thread."
Also this exchange is taking me back to that Elmo Lichen meme day on Twitter :-D aka WIN WIN

mjosmurphy.bsky.social•15 days ago

My family's mostly working class. The way I explain it to my parents is that, that money is spread over several years.l, lot of it goes to pay student and postdoc salaries, and that consumables are expensive because of how they have to be made.

mjosmurphy.bsky.social•15 days ago

The rest of the family kind of assumes we have GoFundMes and bake sales.

jasonkamilar.bsky.social•15 days ago

A lot of the money goes to building maintenance and upkeep and the folks who do those jobs (e.g. carpenters, electricians, drywall and tile installers), as well as all the businesses that supply the materials. The negative effects on the economy is substantial.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

Of course it is- and it's worth UNPACKING those details- the many, many contributors to research infrastructure that build prosperity throughout communities, especially important in rural areas!

jasonkamilar.bsky.social•15 days ago

https://www.aplu.org and should be leading the way. @aaup.bsky.social

jasonkamilar.bsky.social•15 days ago

Yes, universities and most of the people that work at them are quite bad at communicating with blue collar and HS educated voters and how large research universities have positive impacts on their livelihoods (jobs, healthcare). This needs to change fast considering the current political climate.

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

andradare.bsky.social•15 days ago

Thanks for this post! I'm not a scientist; I'm one of them thar science-loving laypeople. Everything feels overwhelming right now. I don't care how research scientists msg about NIH funding slashes. The details help, actually, and I'm aware that research costs money and requires infrastructure. 1/

wenjiang-nano.bsky.social•15 days ago

The message is that scientists can’t do life saving research by themselves in their garage. They need to work with universities with NIH funding both. Without either side, the work ceases. So basically the 80% cut to IDC is a stop to science and research activities in the U.S.

wenjiang-nano.bsky.social•15 days ago

This destroys the world leading scientific ecosystem in the U.S., and the technological edge that the country has over rest of the world. Funding decision can be reversed over night, infrastructures can be built in a few years, but once talent pool is gone, it takes generations to recover, if ever.

andradare.bsky.social•15 days ago

Agreed. I read a detailed article abt NIH cuts on LinkedIn, and found it appalling--and also overwhelming. As a layperson, I appreciated learning how sci research grants are distributed and used. As per the OP, I don't feel put off by the "huge" sums of money. Sci research is well worth it.

wenjiang-nano.bsky.social•15 days ago

A <0.3% change in Tesla share price would cost more than the $4 billion “savings” from nih cut.

andradare.bsky.social•15 days ago

Yes, what Musk is doing is unconscionable. I absolutely despise these cuts to NIH. It seems I haven't communicated that. I was simply saying that I'm not put off by researchers explaining why they need a lot of $, and that the NIH dist shifts will harm, perhaps even crush, crucial research efforts.

andradare.bsky.social•15 days ago

What seems far more urgent at the moment is the fact that a fascist pos has invaded the OPM/treasury and is gutting everything good and progressive about the U.S.. At this point, precise msging hardly seems to matter. Your point is understood; I'm just sharing a poor layperson's perspective. 🤷‍♀️

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

Tug those threads and you will see they are tied with the same knots. Authoritarian regimes dismantle academic institutions after capturing media. Their playbook fills museums and libraries....

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

More Americans think their lives are touched by cancer, asthma, diabetes, heart disease, Alzheimer's, etc, they've been fed doublespeak that they advocate against DEI not realizing they are foot soldiers for segregation...

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

Universities, strong & independent, are a societal bulwark against authoritarianism. They are one of the key incubators of what you say you champion. Breaking universities through gutting NIH support weakens the middle class & makes the other dominoes easier to tumble.

kylereese77.bsky.social•14 days ago

14% of the US has a masters degree. 2% have a phd. Not all this research is needed. Progressives fell for a scam that harms vulnerable ppl. Gender ideology harms women, kids, gays, orphans. Dei is divisive and doesnt work. Yet these are the fascist initives promoted by progressives. Trump didnt

mammalssuck.bsky.social•15 days ago

If this thread doesn't speak to you, it isn't for you. And that's fine. You don't have to join this skirmish, but I would like my fellow academics to stop scoring on our own goals.

andradare.bsky.social•15 days ago

I'm not among their ranks. Again, I appreciate your post, and I know I'm not your target audience. Please keep up the good fight.