If you are in the EU, it might be a good moment to consider signing onto "Stop Killing Games", an consumer initiative to ensure the continued functionality and playability of games you purchase through digital platforms. eci.ec.europa.eu/045/public/#... - ThreadSky

ramiismail.com • 212 days ago

If you are in the EU, it might be a good moment to consider signing onto "Stop Killing Games", an consumer initiative to ensure the continued functionality and playability of games you purchase through digital platforms.

https://eci.ec.europa.eu/045/public/#/screen/home

Comments

terrierj.bsky.social•212 days ago

They should use a Playstation controler rather than a SNES one as logo to give a better description of the situation...

noctourniquette.bsky.social•212 days ago

stop killing games my beloved. wish i could sign

indieklem.bsky.social•212 days ago

Thanks for sharing.

oblivion-spl.bsky.social•70 days ago

Why did my country have to leave the EU, I'll atleast repost for anyone who lives in a country that's apart of it.

alessandrobelli.it•212 days ago

This is great, I signed, but I hope that the politicians that will take care of this won’t mess this up 😅

koren-lesthe.itch.io•212 days ago

Cant' believe it took me so long to watch what Ross was doing outside "Freeman's Mind" and seeing all the energy he spent for this is mind blowing.

Thanks for spreading the word, Rami :)

spiritmuse.bsky.social•212 days ago

I think Nintendo is doing something like this with Animal Crossing Pocket Camp right now. They're preparing to end live service but they're making an offline solo version of it so people can keep all the stuff they collected over the years.

blackstudio14.bsky.social•211 days ago

Thank you!!!!!

metzman.bsky.social•212 days ago

Was this entire thing updated? I remember this whole thing being really vague and generalized not taking into account certain types of games and not counting for the extra work needed to prepare games to make them work offline at the end of it's life. But been a while since I checked on this one.

maxjk0.bsky.social•212 days ago

I've been following it for a while. There was never an issue with that, it was all taken into account, but many people didn't actually read the FAQ or the rules it proposed, so they complained

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

This is a petition, not a legislation, it has character limit and as such cannot cover every possible imaginary corner-case

This is a declaration of interest from people, not a legislation to pass

metzman.bsky.social•212 days ago

Ok thanks for the information. I agree with the sentiment. And I'm a huge supporter of game preservation.

tkg.codes•212 days ago

Yeah, Citizen Initiative is more of a “we, the citizens, want you, the politicians, to look into this specific thing” rather than “we want you to pass this law”.

taylorjrioux.bsky.social•212 days ago

Signed!

andchan.bsky.social•212 days ago

THIS is the kind of stuff I hope the EU spreads worldwide!

portugalense.bsky.social•212 days ago

I don't feel confortable puting my legal information on the web :-(

maxjk0.bsky.social•212 days ago

Its the official form from the government

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

It's an official government website to sign the petition, not some change dot org website

portugalense.bsky.social•212 days ago

I know , but its that thing ...
What if it leaks or what if i do it wrong
Is one of that key rules , don't put personal information online!

tkg.codes•212 days ago

You can either provide data manually or use your government’s infrastructure. As a Polish citizen all I had to do was touch my national ID card with my phone’s NFC reader to authenticate.

portugalense.bsky.social•212 days ago

I don't have my ID to be "digital" because it would require me to do some work and remember a code (it would make things more complicated for me) and i rather keeps things simple

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

If official EU infrastructure is breached your info would be leaked regardless, so it is not really a problem to worry about

portugalense.bsky.social•212 days ago

its probably because i think 2 much about stuff

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

It's okay, it's a good rule of thumb to follow

maooowooo.bsky.social•212 days ago

thanks for the heads up !

claire.gamerguides.com•212 days ago

*cries in Brexit*

theoldhouse.bsky.social•212 days ago

Same! And I don’t even live in the UK anymore 😩

cheater00.bsky.social•211 days ago

you can still support by joining the discord and helping SKG organize! https://linktr.ee/stopkillinggames

theneocubed.bsky.social•212 days ago

I specifically won’t support this for the reasons thor from pirate software has explained. If the proposed law has been changed to take those things into consideration and address them, please tell me. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSvLqB46Y&t=2s&pp=2AECkAIB https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jMKeg9S-s

johnofhearts.bsky.social•212 days ago

But it isn't a proposed law. And Thor is clearly misinformed about the initiative, in the points where he isn't just lying about it.

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

And here's a reply from the person Thor insulted in a deleted vod from his stream and refused to talk or engage with in good faith

https://youtu.be/sEVBiN5SKuA?si=sCoD-NMMEMuV_wis

Also, it is not a legislation, also an entirely different legislation field, also read the comments on Thor's video

theneocubed.bsky.social•212 days ago

hmmmm, I’m gonna need to think on this.

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

I respect you for taking the time to think about it, thank you

ft522.bsky.social•210 days ago

Here's that vod clip you're talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A1CCc_DClY Thor was such an arrogant ass about it.

ft522.bsky.social•210 days ago

about that comment.* oops

fireking.bsky.social•212 days ago

What's going on in the EU?

chaos-alfa.bsky.social•212 days ago

Nothing changed, but the EU has a system in which citizens can propose laws. Someone decided to use it to improve consumer rights

chaos-alfa.bsky.social•212 days ago

in = with

fireking.bsky.social•212 days ago

I hope it passes then

ch4ppie.bsky.social•212 days ago

Signed it the moment I could.

Deadline's next summer, I really hope it can reach the required amount of petitioners. Too many games with interesting premises shut down due to market saturation.

tkg.codes•212 days ago

“I’m doing my part!”

lorenzomarchese.bsky.social•212 days ago

👍

mikegarry.bsky.social•212 days ago

Disagree.

All owners of all media should decide what happens with their creation. I don't see petitions to do the same to movies or TV shows that are no longer on Netflix or whatever?

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

Things that were advertised as a service and sold as a service is not a good example for games sold as products

And yes, there have been multiple outcries about the streaming services and shows becoming unavailable, but it's not what we are taking about here nor is it a good counter argument

mikegarry.bsky.social•212 days ago

Of course its the same as what we are talking about. You buy a LIMITED LICENSE to play the game, you do not OWN THE GAME.

Online games have been sold as services since DAY ONE. Read the terms.

Online Software is both a product and a service - ie a product that is required to attach to a service.

johnofhearts.bsky.social•212 days ago

You don't own the intellectual property and don't get rights to sell the software. You do own your copy. Lucas was able to kill sales of original Star Wars, but not break into your house and steal your VHS. The license discussion is a smokescreen from people who want to steal from you.

mikegarry.bsky.social•211 days ago

Who is stealing from you? Who? No-one is actually taking your copy away of anything - OTHER than that game that was withdrawn recently and everyone got their money back.

johnofhearts.bsky.social•211 days ago

If I pay for something that is later rendered nonfunctional, or is built to be nonfunctional, I have a problem with that. Many products have a functional expiration date, that's fine. But more features for games, software, even household appliances now have a kill-switch without warning or recourse.

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

Sadly my bottom line is I don't give a fuck about EULA dreamed up by a lawyer

Please get your own points and watch the video Ross made, you clearly have no opinion of your own and just parrot Thor

mikegarry.bsky.social•212 days ago

Says you, parroting Ross, a guy who has never worked in games in his life.

You don't give a fuck about contract law? Are you 12?

ramiismail.com•212 days ago

We do give a shit about law, so we're legally changing it from being bad to being good. You're free to not sign.

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

Yeah I'm not American and don't care about contract breaching my rights

I just have a realistic understanding of the world where going to court and disputing each of those EULAs isn't realistic and they exist in a grey area

Ross's involvement in gaming would only damage pro-consumer fight he does

abergendahl.bsky.social•212 days ago

Do we really think that's enough to keep games alive? Assuming there's a server connected to the game (multiplayer, GaaS, or just an account system) it would be relatively easy for a publisher to argue it's not financially feasible to keep the game alive. Or am I not understanding this correctly?

pi0h1.com•212 days ago

It's not about forcing live games to operate forever. It's about forcing future games to include some form of offline play from the design phase onwards or release tools to host servers

abergendahl.bsky.social•212 days ago

That would be awesome but for competitive games it could open up a can of security worms while the game is live. Also more work for game devs.

pi0h1.com•212 days ago

Doesn't have to be while the game is live. There needs to be plans to enable this 'offline play'/'server binary release' after support from the company ends.

kemosobe.bsky.social•212 days ago

That is still just not at all possible for every game and would actually do so much more harm than good to enforce. Truly the best way for gamers to help change the space of games is to stop buying/supporting the things they say are bad.

pi0h1.com•212 days ago

1) Gamers have proven that they will *not* to stop buying games to protests bad or immoral practices
2) There comes a point where "harm" is necessary. Adding seatbelts to cars "harms" the automobile industry because it costs money. Neutral packaging "harms" the tobacco industry.

pi0h1.com•212 days ago

Game developers should be able to develop anything they want. But selling a product to people requires some level of responsibility. You shouldn't be able to kill off a live-service game you sold in the same shelves as pay-to-keep-forever games and then use your poor planning as an excuse.

pi0h1.com•212 days ago

If there's some game design that absolutely requires you to 1) be connected to a company server 100% of the time and 2) be sold under the same model as pay-to-keep-forever games... Just stop selling those games?
League of Legends with bot support is exempt from this through that feature alone.

bustawolf.bsky.social•212 days ago

I think, above all, what the initiative is looking for is clarity. IMO, the absolute bare minimum should be an warning such as "This game/product is only guaranteed to function up until to 203X.XX.XX". Although giving customers an way to keep playing when support ends would be ideal.

johnofhearts.bsky.social•212 days ago

I see what you mean, but I think the bare minimum should be keeping a product you paid for. They still have my money, so why do I lose my product?

bustawolf.bsky.social•212 days ago

In the case of games released before such a warning was a thing, I agree with you, publishers are getting away with straight up robbery, at least with a warning costumers could make an informed decision. For already released stuff the actual bare minimum should be refunds.

abergendahl.bsky.social•212 days ago

This I like - similar to smartphones receiving operating system updates for X years

ninjadodo.bsky.social•212 days ago

It's about doing the bare minimum to keep games functional by removing any online-only DRM and not getting in the way if fans want to keep a game alive by making their own servers after official support ends.

abergendahl.bsky.social•212 days ago

Makes sense, just adds lots of more work for already stressed game devs 😅

johnofhearts.bsky.social•212 days ago

If adding work is necessary so that they don't steal from paying customers, so be it. Maybe they can compensate by not treating their workers like shit at every other point of the process, which seems to be the industry standard. (And hey, we can do something about that too.)

ninjadodo.bsky.social•212 days ago

Not necessarily. They don't have to add arbitrary DRM in the first place, which saves time not having to remove it later, and allowing others to mod in and maintain custom servers requires no effort on their part. It would HELP if they did make an effort, but they don't have to.

ninjadodo.bsky.social•212 days ago

Like people have created community run fan servers for 3DS and Wii to restore multiplayer functionality now that official servers are gone, with no effort on the part of Nintendo and in fact despite attempts by Nintendo to prevent any such modding and homebrew. Similar thing with other games.

ninjadodo.bsky.social•212 days ago

If a petition like the above led to new EU legislation it would ensure that more (even most) games could be preserved in this way, not just the ones with the most determined fans.

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

Linking the FAQ and explanatory video addressing bad-faith arguments because I know it will be infested with people parroting Thor

https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq

https://youtu.be/sEVBiN5SKuA?si=sCoD-NMMEMuV_wis

tkg.codes•212 days ago

Yeah, I like Thor a lot, but I disagree with him on this specific issue.

mikegarry.bsky.social•212 days ago

Thor, the professional game developer, was right though.

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

No, Thor, the professional game developer, has a biased perception of the situation because it threatens his livelihood

He's not pro-consumer and as such lobbying for his own interests (status quo)

mikegarry.bsky.social•212 days ago

WTF? It threatens the livelihoods of every game developer that makes any sort of online or multiplayer game. There are already consumer protection laws in the EU, this goes WAY beyond anything that exists for any other type of media.

You apparently work in games and you really think this?

bestyoutuber69.bsky.social•212 days ago

Yes I really think like this because I don't dream up impossible scenarios and corner cases

I also have heard that shit about threatening livelihoods and destroying gamedev with multiple other legislations like disclosing lootbox drop chances

Industry didn't die then and it won't die now

zamboney.bsky.social•212 days ago

Epic ✊ they won't take our games

Bro do you play assassin's creed

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