Why does everyone want to build their own alternative? Why not just join alternative that is already there? The Greens want a wealth tax, workers rights, climate justice, & public ownership. They’ve got a democratic structure. Stop waiting for perfection, glorious leaders, & cadre opportunities - ThreadSky

carolinejmolloy.bsky.social • 15 days ago

Why does everyone want to build their own alternative?

Why not just join alternative that is already there?

The Greens want a wealth tax, workers rights, climate justice, & public ownership. They’ve got a democratic structure.

Stop waiting for perfection, glorious leaders, & cadre opportunities

Reposted from Owen Jones

Labour is dead.

We need to build an alternative.

New column 👇

www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...

Comments

mcphail.uk•15 days ago

The Greens in Scotland have been viciously divided and divisive, along with an incomprehensible focus on independence which puts them beyond acceptable for over half of the population.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjewl2n95qeo

alexiswolfe83.bsky.social•14 days ago

Keep going... what's your point?

mcphail.uk•14 days ago

They appeal and attract the already-affluent, they are not intrinsically of the left, there is a latent right-wing which has been recently suppressed but gross failures of leadership when in power have weakened the left bulwark.

mcphail.uk•14 days ago

Their presence in government was so disastrous that defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory on progressive and environmental targets and have been set back for years. The conservative voices in Scottish politics have been reamplified. It has been an awful outcome for the left.

alexiswolfe83.bsky.social•13 days ago

Thanks. And for explicit clarification, you think the same things exist or will befall GPEW?

siry4ever.bsky.social•15 days ago

Agreed 💯
However, I think the issue lies with the different forms of socialism. The left wing is too divided. Corbyn has great influence, but I think he's more of an anarcho-syndicalist? Giving power to the unions and local communities rather than parties.

antireactionary.bsky.social•14 days ago

It is unreasonable to ask voters to support the UK Greens, without disclosing their policy preferences. Election manifestos don't help, because they are deliberately vague.

johnalex.bsky.social•15 days ago

What's their stance on Israel's genocide?

edpoole1975.bsky.social•15 days ago

https://greenparty.org.uk/2024/09/09/greens-become-first-political-party-in-england-and-wales-to-recognise-israeli-government-conduct-as-apartheid-and-genocide/

johnalex.bsky.social•15 days ago

Hi Ed, how can I get in touch with Chris Copeman, standing for Runcorn & helsby ward

edpoole1975.bsky.social•15 days ago

Hi John, I have no idea! Let me see what I can find out.

johnalex.bsky.social•15 days ago

Thank you

edpoole1975.bsky.social•15 days ago

There's an emails here
https://cheshirewestandchester.greenparty.org.uk/people-2/nick-brown-copy/

johnalex.bsky.social•15 days ago

Great thanks

johnalex.bsky.social•15 days ago

Thanks Ed👍👍

everyonesmum.bsky.social•14 days ago

I hear what you're saying but in order to make an impact in the fptp system a party has to be able to encourage people to rally to it's cause which is something the green party has been slow to do. Tactical voting worked last year so the party's job now is to make itselves the tactical vote

greenchutes.bsky.social•15 days ago

Absolutely. To refocus onto your priorities, use democracy within the Green Party.

carolinejmolloy.bsky.social•15 days ago

I mean, I love Mick Lynch, who doesn’t? But even if he was remotely interested, building a movement around a national treasure / hero figures? We have *tried that* & it didn’t work. Me, I’m wondering where the outcry is about abolishing layers of democracy where the Greens are building strength

solvognen.bsky.social•15 days ago

Mick Lynch is very firmly Lexit, not sure about OJ there.
But OJ would presumably resent having to climb the ladder in the GP rather than get automatic preferment in any new political vehicle.

carolinejmolloy.bsky.social•15 days ago

The idea that the “average punter” is particularly in need of a charismatic leader is a bit patronising imo. I think the “average punter” mostly wants stuff like decent childcare, healthcare that’s run for people not profit, a future for our planet, and the ability to afford a roof over their head.

alexiswolfe83.bsky.social•15 days ago

Yes, but I suppose the argument here is about having the orator or messenger for the route to that.

So, if we're saying it doesn't necessitate a charismatic individual, what's the alternative means of connection/ communication?

carolinejmolloy.bsky.social•14 days ago

I think we have the tools to be able to communicate more horizontally, more equally, to take our own power back, not project it onto some charismatic Other. In my mind that’s what leadership should be about, encouraging people to step into their power. Not about Great Leaders.

alexiswolfe83.bsky.social•12 days ago

I'm on board with that.

That doesn't seem to currently exist or be mobilised sufficiently. There is also a present moment & and opportunity that is passing by.

So,
1) how do we mobilise/ build the ideal form

2) can't we take what opportunities present themselves, and back-fill where necessary?

carolinejmolloy.bsky.social•14 days ago

In fact one of my favourite things ever about the Green Party is it is has always been the antithesis of the Farage cult of personality or the corruptible New Labour “there are only 17 people who count and I am intimate with all of them” lobbyist hell. #NoGodsNoMasters #BeTheChangeYouWantToSee

gavinaldrich.bsky.social•14 days ago

The “left” are just too divided and too invested in their own idea of perfect to build any meaningful unity.

guybaily.bsky.social•15 days ago

Absolutely this. No party will ever perfectly reflect your personal opinions but the Greens are much the best fit for progressives. Trying to create something new will be a disaster under FPTP

justiceseer.bsky.social•15 days ago

Because we need a #Socialist alternative to Labour. There are 5 #IndependentAlliance MPs,- that's 1 more than #Greens. A BIG party to replace Labour is a MUST- so #Greens/ #IndependentSocialists/exLabour - NEED to form an alliance!

carolinejmolloy.bsky.social•15 days ago

The independent MPs have done a great job but how do ordinary people support or influence their policy agenda? We need democratic party structures to do that, and I’m just pointing out that we’ve already got a good one, one that has been welcoming inspiring activists and cllrs from all communities.

edpoole1975.bsky.social•15 days ago

I also think it's a big assumption to call all the Independents socialist. My guess is only Corbyn is anywhere near as left wing as the Greens.

justiceseer.bsky.social•15 days ago

I meant #IndependentSocialists!(Including the suspended Labour mps who should join the #IndyAlliance!) Although,I would hope that the other 4 #IndependentAllianceMPs are more #LeftWing than right (even though 2 of em voted against taxing public schools which was gross!)
🤬 I hope #Greens do GROW!🙏

edpoole1975.bsky.social•15 days ago

Well they should do something but in the mean time I'll be building an existing nationwide socialist alternative: the Green Party

justiceseer.bsky.social•15 days ago

I know, but the #Greens -who I voted for/will vote for at locals- are not attracting people in the numbers needed to elect MP's. They need to align with #Independents (who I think will continue to win #Local seats because of the real dislike of the mainstream duopoly. We NEED a #LeftWingCollective.

edpoole1975.bsky.social•15 days ago

I have a simpler solution: socialists join the Green party that already has a democratic structure, policy platform and nationwide infrastructure.
Things that will take years to build from scratch.

siry4ever.bsky.social•15 days ago

Corbyn has a lot of followers, as does people like Galloway and Mick Lynch. But I think they all have different views on certain things?

edpoole1975.bsky.social•15 days ago

Corbyn is not going to launch or join anything and is in his mid 70s. Mick Lynch has just retired and Galloway is a fash adjacent, anti immigration bigot, chancer who is also planning his retirement anyway.
New leaders will emerge.

justiceseer.bsky.social•15 days ago

But the #Greens (who I voted for)didn't get enough ex-Labour/ #Socialists voting for them at the GE. They MUST attract voters. #ZackPolansky is doing a great job at promoting them online (and saw a great film- reminded me of #Corbyn's great campaign videos). But the #GreenMPs need to do more online.

edpoole1975.bsky.social•15 days ago

And people like @greensorganise.bsky.social are working on that and doing some great stuff. We are building on the general election to add to our 900 councillors and build a solid base for the next general election. But we don't have big donors or relentless TV coverage. It takes volunteers.

justiceseer.bsky.social•15 days ago

Seriously,social media content can be done by anyone anywhere (think #TikTok👍).You can film content on your mobile and upload it for nothing.Zak Polanski is utilising social media brilliantly, but I honestly think I've only seen the odd posting from Carla Denyer-and tbh I had to google the others.🤔

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply