One thing I don't understand about IPA: So, I actually enjoyed a hopped cider? It tasted to me like cider plus floral tastes and maybe something like chamomile. But it didn't have that IPA bitterness. Is that quantity of hops or is it some beer-by-hops interaction? - ThreadSky

zachweinersmith.bsky.social • 129 days ago

One thing I don't understand about IPA:

So, I actually enjoyed a hopped cider? It tasted to me like cider plus floral tastes and maybe something like chamomile. But it didn't have that IPA bitterness. Is that quantity of hops or is it some beer-by-hops interaction?

Comments

russet-burbank.bsky.social•129 days ago

It didn't have the crystallized shards of hops, so it was inferior

cdaveross.bsky.social•129 days ago

This sounds like it might be *which* hops that you're keying off of (and what stage they're added in the process). Some are very bitter, some have 0 IBU (outdated but still used measurement for bitterness, only measures alpha acids)
Older IPA hops tend to be bitter, newer ones less so

unsequenced.bsky.social•129 days ago

In addition to the different aromatic byproducts of fermentation from grain vs fruit, wouldn’t the different types of residual sugars make a big difference to the taste? Maltose is way less sweet than sucrose.

cursed.monster•129 days ago

Quantity, but also quite possibly differences in chemistry and aging. I’ve definitely made beer before that came out WAY too hoppy out of the fermenter, but then I stuck it in the closet and forgot about it for a few months and when I tried it again it had mellowed considerably.

cursed.monster•129 days ago

Also depends on the type of hops and how long they boil in the brew. Some hops are bittering hops (heavy in alpha acids), which are heavier in alpha acids and are present for most of the brew. Other hops have more in the way of beta acids and delicate/floral flavors and aromas and are added later.

cursed.monster•129 days ago

I’ve never actually made cider, but assuming it doesn’t need to boil as long as beer does (which is partly for hop extraction, partly for enzyme action), a lot less of the bittering compounds could be extracted and a lot of the more floral compounds preserved much better.

cursed.monster•129 days ago

If you’re curious, Charlie Papazian’s classic book The Joy Of Homebrewing is a really good, accessible book that covers a lot of these topics and more without being super boring.

annenotation.bsky.social•129 days ago

The bitterness is the gremlin pee

reluctantmonk.bsky.social•128 days ago

I'd echo a lot of what's been said about the cooking method before the yeast is pitched for fermentation. Additionally, different strains of hops have different flavors and levels of alpha acid so you'd use different hops to make an IPA then to flavor a cider.

1lenore.bsky.social•129 days ago

It may be that they chose nice hops. Some hops are more IPA-y than others. Also, ciders tend to have fruitier flavors that complement hops rather than accentuate them.

hydroponiac.bsky.social•129 days ago

It’s a balance. NE hazy IPAs genuinely taste like OJ to me but there are some truly heinous “bitter hop ONLY” ipas that suck

cyx37.bsky.social•129 days ago

In my experience, there is more variety in hop flavors than in coffee beans, which is to say a lot. I've had IPAs that were extremely bitter and others that were as juicy as an orange soda (no additives... just citra hops). Brewing technique also has a profound effect.

cyx37.bsky.social•129 days ago

So, in short, it's impossible for me to speak of IPAs so generally. There are some I love and some I can't drink.

medardus333.bsky.social•129 days ago

Hop contain so called alpha acids, by heat near boiling temperature they get converted to iso-alpha acids. These give the bitterness. Dry-hopping is during fermentation, so no alpha acid isomerization, but yeast also contributes to fruity flavours via biotransformation of hop compounds.

peterb.bsky.social•129 days ago

It’s mostly quantity, although type of hops matters. Bad brewers love IPAs because using too much hops lets them cover up other imperfections in the beer.

There are good IPAs but plenty of them are garbage that has been over hopped to hide its garbage nature.

mxnectarine.bsky.social•129 days ago

Some hops are more bitter, and also the sweetness of the cider should balance out quite a lot of bitterness too I think

aeronomix.bsky.social•129 days ago

To oversimplify: It is the cooking method: to have the bitterness, you have to boiling the hops for a long time (20-60 minutes for non negligible bitterness), but if you only boils them for a few minutes, you get the more complex flavors (there is also dry hopping...)

wdstahlman.bsky.social•129 days ago

Homebrewer here. The answer is that hops generally only contribute bitterness when boiled over time as a part of the process. Dry-hopping a beer (or a cider, likely never heated to boiling) contributes aromatics but not bitterness.

wdstahlman.bsky.social•129 days ago

This is why most traditional beer recipes call for multiple hops additions, one at a point early in the boil (contributing bitterness) and 1-2 late before cooling (contributing flavor and aroma).