Linguists: what would you call the constructions "out of sorts" and why does it mean differently than "out of fucks" (in the sense that fucks is a countable attribute of the speaker, but sorts is not)? - ThreadSky

spavel.bsky.social • 104 days ago

Linguists: what would you call the constructions
"out of sorts" and why does it mean differently than "out of fucks" (in the sense that fucks is a countable attribute of the speaker, but sorts is not)?

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ishyamo.bsky.social•104 days ago

If you’re (‘in’) sorts, you are yourself as usual. Out of sorts is to be ‘not yourself’, feeling or behaving unusually. Out of fucks - where fucks is a substitute for ‘care’ - means you don’t have any care left.

manchufu.bsky.social•104 days ago

"metaphor"

catacalypto.bsky.social•104 days ago

eh, it’s like Greek prepositions, para- can mean a couple different things depending on what comes next

chathamharrison.bsky.social•104 days ago

As a not-linguist for something to be out of sorts means it has moved outside an acceptable range. Like "out of bounds". "Out of fucks" refers to a quantity of fucks one could give.

spavel.bsky.social•104 days ago

Right but why are they constructed the same way

spavel.bsky.social•104 days ago

"out of [noun]"

skeet.best•104 days ago

because the same words can mean different things

mdaware.org•104 days ago

someone posted about garden path sentences the other day, eg

"The old man the boat."

skeet.best•104 days ago

the horse raced past the barn fell

chathamharrison.bsky.social•104 days ago

It's a coincidence. "Out of fucks" is an irregular bit of wordplay on "I don't give a fuck", one of many more vulgar versions of "I don't give a fig", an old phrase, meaning "I don't care", of uncertain origin (it may refer to the "fig sign", i.e. "I would not even bother to gesture rudely at it.")

chathamharrison.bsky.social•104 days ago

But fundamentally the issue is that "out" can have different meanings. You can be "out of milk" or you can be "out of the house". Both are valid, but one refers to a dearth & one refers to a position, & as far as I can tell this multiple meaning extends back to Old English at least

keystricken.bsky.social•104 days ago

@drac.bsky.social has it right; “out of sorts” has become an idiom, and the individual words in it don’t mean anything anymore. You’d never say you “found more sorts”. It’s rigid.

Meanwhile “out of fucks” isn’t fully idiomatic yet; “fucks” is still a discrete noun. “I found more fucks” still works.

drac.bsky.social•104 days ago

out of sorts is an idiom, and therefore descriptive (17th century typographers) while out of fucks is a literal statement? If that makes sense - in my head it sort of does

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